Page 16 of 22 FirstFirst ... 61415161718 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 160 of 214

Thread: Obama EPA kills power plant, 3,900 jobs in Texas

  1. #151
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:58 AM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,299
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Obama EPA kills power plant, 3,900 jobs in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    A liberal playing games to avoid the issue... How strange and unusual.

    <sarcasm off>
    I am trying to talk about the issue. You are the one who refuses. I want you to back up your claim from the very first post. Why can you not do that?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  2. #152
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:58 AM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,299
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Obama EPA kills power plant, 3,900 jobs in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    Redress knows damned well that those regulations exist. This is just one of those subjects that doesn't work well ideologically, so playing games to avoid the reality of how those regulations will negatively effect the economy, became a more attractive strategy for Redress.
    Reality does not play ideological games. What you have not been able to do is look at the reality, which would be what regulations has Obama and the EPA implemented that caused this company to fail.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  3. #153
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 03:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,272

    Re: Obama EPA kills power plant, 3,900 jobs in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    What trying to distract from the issue. You claimed that the plant failed because of Obama and EPA regulations. You should then be able to tell us what ones. The fact that you can't reveals your lack of knowledge on the issue.
    EPA Regulations Killing the Coal Industry? | Fox Business Video
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  4. #154
    Sage
    OpportunityCost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:04 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,727

    Re: Obama EPA kills power plant, 3,900 jobs in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Reality does not play ideological games. What you have not been able to do is look at the reality, which would be what regulations has Obama and the EPA implemented that caused this company to fail.
    Reality doesnt but you sure do. You have responses from three other posters. Maybe you should set your hatred of Grim aside and address the topic, there are responses to which regulations. Why dont we start with those.

  5. #155
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:58 AM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,299
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Obama EPA kills power plant, 3,900 jobs in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Reality doesnt but you sure do. You have responses from three other posters. Maybe you should set your hatred of Grim aside and address the topic, there are responses to which regulations. Why dont we start with those.
    None of those are EPA regulations which are currently in place that had any effect on the failure of the company making the plant.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  6. #156
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Last Seen
    01-17-16 @ 05:09 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,122

    Re: Obama EPA kills power plant, 3,900 jobs in Texas

    To accurately judge this situation one has to be quite knowledgeable about the technology of coal based energy generation, the financial strategies required for that type of business, and the energy generation method's specific environmental impact. Then, one may be qualified to judge the specific law or regulation(s) (if they have actually read it) to determine whether its negative impact on the corporation's finances is actually greater than the societal benefit from the resulting environmental protections.

    Since very few of us have sufficient background knowledge and have actually read and understood the specific law(s) or regulation(s) in question, we have to rely on the opinions of others. I am more inclined to trust the judgement of a highly educated and trained government regulator working for a salary than the opinion of a person with a significant financial stake in the matter. That's just how I role, I'm skeptical about anyone trying to make money off me.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 01-27-13 at 07:22 PM.

  7. #157
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Last Seen
    10-20-13 @ 04:50 AM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    3,195

    Re: Obama EPA kills power plant, 3,900 jobs in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Reality does not play ideological games. What you have not been able to do is look at the reality, which would be what regulations has Obama and the EPA implemented that caused this company to fail.
    Obama's EPA is the entity that is playing ideological games. He's using the EPA to regulate the coal industry into oblivion, putting more than a million jobs at risk. They pass ridiculous regulations that force these companies to waste billions of capital trying to stay compliant.

    Regulatory Actions | Mercury and Air Toxics Standards (MATS) for Power Plants | US EPA

    Q&A with Scott Segal on New Mercury MACT Rule | ERCC

    Utility MACT will undermine job creation in the United States in several different ways. It will result in retirement of a significant number of power plants and either fail to replace that capacity or replace it with less labor-intensive forms of generation. It will increase the cost of power, undermining the international competitiveness of almost two dozen manufacturing industries, and it will reduce employment upstream in the mining sectors. All told, it is anticipated that the rule will result in the loss of some 1.44 million jobs by 2020. While some jobs are created by complying with the new rule, the number and quality of those jobs is far less than those destroyed. We estimate that for every one temporary job created, four higher-paying permanent jobs are lost. The bottom line: this rule is the most expensive air rule that EPA has ever proposed in terms of direct costs. It is certainly the most extensive intervention into the power market and job market that EPA has ever attempted to implement.
    Here's another one

    Air Transport | US EPA

    The cost to businesses that have to retrofit in order to comply? 800 billion. That = lost jobs. Obama's EPA isn't running analysis in regards to how their regulations will affect existing jobs and future job growth. They are supposed to, but instead are ramming in regulations from a pure ideological standpoint. Not grounded in economic day to day reality. Jobs and the economy be damned.

    EPA Regulations have increased costs to some businesses as much as 33%

    http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/...2010252011.pdf

    This is the problem with centralized planning. Nobody holds the EPA accountable when their regulations produce unintended consequences that cost jobs and hurt the economy. They don't have to worry about costs like private businesses do. Hell, they don't even have to take responsibility.

  8. #158
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:42 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    66,357

    Re: Obama EPA kills power plant, 3,900 jobs in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    None of those are EPA regulations which are currently in place that had any effect on the failure of the company making the plant.
    Someone could show you a direct citation to a regulation cited by the CEO of the company as a reason that they were not able to make their bottom line, and you would merely respond "lies! The company just sucks!" so what's the point. You're gonna claim absolute innocence for Obama's policy and the EPA no matter what anyone says, and you will do so on the basis of "you can't prove anything". That's weak sauce and, frankly, shockingly childish for an adult debate forum.

  9. #159
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Last Seen
    01-17-16 @ 05:09 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,122

    Re: Obama EPA kills power plant, 3,900 jobs in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Obama's EPA is the entity that is playing ideological games. He's using the EPA to regulate the coal industry into oblivion, putting more than a million jobs at risk. They pass ridiculous regulations that force these companies to waste billions of capital trying to stay compliant.

    Regulatory Actions | Mercury and Air Toxics Standards (MATS) for Power Plants | US EPA

    Q&A with Scott Segal on New Mercury MACT Rule | ERCC



    Here's another one

    Air Transport | US EPA

    The cost to businesses that have to retrofit in order to comply? 800 billion. That = lost jobs. Obama's EPA isn't running analysis in regards to how their regulations will affect existing jobs and future job growth. They are supposed to, but instead are ramming in regulations from a pure ideological standpoint. Not grounded in economic day to day reality. Jobs and the economy be damned.

    EPA Regulations have increased costs to some businesses as much as 33%

    http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/...2010252011.pdf

    This is the problem with centralized planning. Nobody holds the EPA accountable when their regulations produce unintended consequences that cost jobs and hurt the economy. They don't have to worry about costs like private businesses do. Hell, they don't even have to take responsibility.
    The first link is to a proposed rule that has not been implemented yet. It says that it will
    "...update emission limits for new power plants under the Mercury and Air Toxics Standards (MATS). The updates would only apply to future power plants; would not change the types of state-of-the-art pollution controls that they are expected to install; and would not significantly change costs or public health benefits of the rule...."

    Perhaps that is why no public hearing was requested during the public comment period.

    The second link features the opinions of a representative of an indu$try trade group.

    Re. the third link:
    "This rule, known as the Cross-State Air Pollution Rule (CSAPR), requires states to significantly improve air quality by reducing power plant emissions that contribute to ozone and/or fine particle pollution in other states. In a separate, but related, regulatory action, EPA finalized a supplemental rulemaking on December 15, 2011 to require five states - Iowa, Michigan, Missouri, Oklahoma, and Wisconsin - to make summertime NOX reductions under the CSAPR ozone season control program. CSAPR requires a total of 28 states to reduce annual SO2 emissions, annual NOX emissions and/or ozone season NOX emissions to assist in attaining the 1997 ozone and fine particle and 2006 fine particle National Ambient Air Quality Standards (NAAQS)." EPA

    How much is the difference in the NOX and SO2 levels you believe should be allowed compared to the new EPA (2006) standards? How many extra asthma and emphysema cases would the old levels create?

    The fourth link is to the uncorroborated testimony of the CEO of a Ready-Mix and Building Material$ company.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 01-27-13 at 07:53 PM.

  10. #160
    Battle Ready
    Grim17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Southwestern U.S.
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:33 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    24,135
    Blog Entries
    20

    Re: Obama EPA kills power plant, 3,900 jobs in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Reality doesnt but you sure do. You have responses from three other posters. Maybe you should set your hatred of Grim aside and address the topic, there are responses to which regulations. Why dont we start with those.
    I'm sure glad that it's obvious to others as well...

    I hope this thread has opened everyone's eyes around here, instead of just a select few.

Page 16 of 22 FirstFirst ... 61415161718 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •