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Thread: In malpractice case, Catholic hospital argues fetuses arenít people

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    Re: In malpractice case, Catholic hospital argues fetuses arenít people

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    yes, because the same expectations of being "on call" exist for all professions.
    The world is an imperfect place and people are not perfect - they miss pages and calls.

    A better question to ask is how many lives has that doctor saved?

    People aren't perfect - not even doctors or pagers or cell phones for that matter.

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    Re: In malpractice case, Catholic hospital argues fetuses arenít people

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    The world is an imperfect place and people are not perfect - they miss pages and calls.
    yes, nick, they do, but doctors have a professional and contractual obligation while "on call". The pizza boy does not ...


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    A better question to ask is how many lives has that doctor saved?
    it's completely irrelevant to the case, so no, it isn't


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    People aren't perfect - not even doctors or pagers or cell phones for that matter.
    and that is why we have trials where the defendant gets to defend himself

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    Re: In malpractice case, Catholic hospital argues fetuses arenít people

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    yes, because the same expectations of being "on call" exist for all professions.

    Also, delivering babies is routine for doctors. For all that doctor knew he was going to be delivering a baby which is not a big deal at all to doctors considering the nurses do 90% of the work and doctors come in at the last minute to birth the child. Hell these days doctors are so busy they recommend c-sections just to get the process done with as fast as possible.

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    Re: In malpractice case, Catholic hospital argues fetuses arenít people

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    The same principle applies: your personal views don't shape the actual law. If you want to use a more emotional based example to challenge that, then fine. But you will need to explain to use how the individual being held libale for the actions will shape how the law is applied, due to his beliefs.

    Simply injecting the emotional based example doesn't accomplish this

    thx ...
    Not more 'emotional', more in line with the issue at hand. I didn't use 'death of an innocent' or other emotional speak. But there is a very bad decision made that affected others,(your pot smoker isn't that), and the consequences.

    Sometimes a trivial comparison is just as bad as an 'emotional' one.

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    Re: In malpractice case, Catholic hospital argues fetuses arenít people

    A couple of years ago St. Joseph's (Catholic) Hospital in Phoenix faced an emergency situation where the life of the mother who was 11 weeks pregnant was in immediate danger. Physicians saved the life of the mother and terminated the pregnancy. A Roman Catholic Bishop, Thomas Olmstead, in Phoenix ended St. Joseph's affiliation with the Roman Catholic Church and ex-communicated the hospital administrator, a Roman Catholic nun. Now we just call it Joe's Hospital.

    Unfortunately, Olmstead, then did it again to another hospital in Mesa. Fortunately for Phoenix, the Vatican is reported to be in the process of promoting the ambitious Bishop to a position in Rome.

    In the meantime, in the Bishop's diocese a church refuses to pay for interpreters for deaf Catholics while at the same time it continues to build and expand to the tune of millions of dollars.

    This goes back to November 2009, when a woman who was 11 weeks pregnant went to St. Joe's with pulmonary hypertension, which limits the ability of the heart and lungs to function properly. Hormones produced by the uterus during pregnancy seriously exacerbate the dangerous condition. The medical staff believed the young woman was close to death. In order to save her life, doctors terminated the pregnancy.

    Olmstead said the surgery was an abortion and threatened to pull the hospital's Catholic affiliation if it did not comply with conditions to ensure that it is adhering to the church's teachings.

    The nun who was part of the decision to perform the procedure, Sister Margaret McBride, had already been excommunicated.










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    Re: In malpractice case, Catholic hospital argues fetuses arenít people

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Not more 'emotional', more in line with the issue at hand.

    Nope, my example illustrated my point perfectly. the only difference with yours is that you can't explain how it supports your position and that it makes an emotional appeal.

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    I didn't use 'death of an innocent' or other emotional speak. But there is a very bad decision made that affected others,(your pot smoker isn't that), and the consequences.
    the principle I was illustrating wasn't about harm. It was about laws not being dictated by our personal beliefs. The law applies to everyone equally, regardless of how they view it, and your example does nothing to challenge that besides throwing a dead baby into the mix

    hence, the emotional appeal, and your lack of ability to explain how it undermines my original argument ...

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    Re: In malpractice case, Catholic hospital argues fetuses arenít people

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    yes, nick, they do, but doctors have a professional and contractual obligation while "on call". The pizza boy does not ...




    it's completely irrelevant to the case, so no, it isn't




    and that is why we have trials where the defendant gets to defend himself
    Your point is moot.... You're trying to say the doctor is a perfect person and lapsed on perfection. I'm saying doctors aren't perfect people and perfection is an impossible quality to expect.

    Also, the Hippocratic Oath is "do no harm" not "do not miss a page or phone call."

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    Re: In malpractice case, Catholic hospital argues fetuses arenít people

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Your point is moot.... You're trying to say the doctor is a perfect person and lapsed on perfection. I'm saying doctors aren't perfect people and perfection is an impossible quality to expect.

    Also, the Hippocratic Oath is "do no harm" not "do not miss a page or phone call."
    1) never asserted anything about anyone being perfect

    2) claiming something as moot is not the same as it actually being so

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    Re: In malpractice case, Catholic hospital argues fetuses arenít people

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    1) never asserted anything about anyone being perfect

    2) claiming something as moot is not the same as it actually being so
    Well you're implying the doctor is in the wrong for missing a page.

    Sorry to tell you that child birth isn't an "emergency" it's routine. Unfortunately this woman was not in labor (which I assume everyone thought she was in labor) and she died of something not related to her pregnancy (or not considering it was her aorta).

    It's a sad story, but I'm not going to blame the doctor.

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    Re: In malpractice case, Catholic hospital argues fetuses arenít people

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Well you're implying the doctor is in the wrong for missing a page.
    No I am pointing out that your example "of all people" doesn't apply here because of the well recognized professonal demands of a doctor ...

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