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Thread: Pentagon to overturn ban on women in military combat roles

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    Pentagon to overturn ban on women in military combat roles

    Pentagon to overturn ban on women in military combat roles | World news | guardian.co.uk
    Women could assume combat roles in the US army for the first time as early as this year, following a landmark decision by defense secretary Leon Panetta to lift a military ban on women serving on the frontline.

    The groundbreaking move could open up hundreds of thousands of frontline positions, and could see women working in elite commando units.

    One official told the Associated Press, which revealed details of the move, that military chiefs will report to the Pentagon on how to integrate women into combat roles by 15 May.

    Panetta's decision was hailed as a "historic step" by one senator and could eventually open up 230,000 jobs to female military personnel. The Pentagon had previously opened around 14,500 combat positions to women in February 2012, but females were still prevented from serving in the infantry, in tank units and in commando units.

    Women, although banned from serving in combat roles, have been heavily involved in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan over the past 12 years, serving as pilots, military police, intelligence officers and other roles attached to, if not formally part of, frontline units. By last year, around 130 women had died and 800 had been wounded since the wars began
    Personally, I'm fine with this as long as they physical requirements are the same. If you can't lift enough or run long enough, you're putting other people in extra danger as well as yourself.
    Last edited by Pilot; 01-23-13 at 07:18 PM.

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    Re: Pentagon to overturn ban on women in military combat roles

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
    Personally, I'm fine with this as long as they physical requirements are the same. If you can't lift enough or run long enough, you're putting other people in extra danger as well as yourself.
    I agree. No women graduated my jump school (~6 fell out on Friday runs). And the pushups gotta be proper, center of gravity is a big tough crap so I guess they'll need to be stronger than the men, relatively, which women should be used to by now .

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    Re: Pentagon to overturn ban on women in military combat roles

    I wouldn't have enjoyed it, but it's a entirely different world. If it is equality the military wants then we should reinstate the draft with no deferments for fortunate sons. THAT would make a difference worth having. At that point I'd say, sure let the women serve in combat if they can hump the load.










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    Re: Pentagon to overturn ban on women in military combat roles

    At this point, with asymmetric warfare becoming the norm, everywhere is the battlefield. Makes no sense to prevent them from joining combat roles that see heavy fighting when support roles often encounter the same stuff anyways.
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    Re: Pentagon to overturn ban on women in military combat roles

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
    Pentagon to overturn ban on women in military combat roles | World news | guardian.co.uk


    Personally, I'm fine with this as long as they physical requirements are the same. If you can't lift enough or run long enough, you're putting other people in extra danger as well as yourself.
    Agreed..

    If they're physically capable of hanging with the boys then more power to them. However If they can't keep pace it should be a no go.

    Soldiers shouldn't be held back in war zones or die just to be politically correct...

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    Re: Pentagon to overturn ban on women in military combat roles

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    At this point, with asymmetric warfare becoming the norm, everywhere is the battlefield. Makes no sense to prevent them from joining combat roles that see heavy fighting when support roles often encounter the same stuff anyways.
    Woman are not capable of the same physical activities as men. Men move faster and are stronger - that is just a fact.

    Few woman are capable of performing such duties.

    You'd end up with members of the service carrying woman around on their backs because they cant make it...

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    Re: Pentagon to overturn ban on women in military combat roles

    If we want equality than let's make women eligible for the draft. What you can't do is pretend to make things fair by putting those in ****ty situations in even worse situations if they are held back. Don't think our soldiers have light loads and personal AC units to keep them cool. It's hard work out there and the majority of women would be a liability.

    If you disagree find the worst part of town you know and ask the police officer if he would prefer a male or female partner.

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    Re: Pentagon to overturn ban on women in military combat roles

    I've got no problem with it as long as the requirements for both men and women are the same. There are probably plenty of combat jobs that aren't all that physical that women could do just as well as men.
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    Re: Pentagon to overturn ban on women in military combat roles

    I say we go for an all female military, and let the guys sit back for a change. After running the military for thousands of years, it's time to let the womenz show their stuff.













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    Re: Pentagon to overturn ban on women in military combat roles

    I have one big issue with this. Women will not be held to the same physical standard men are yet will be able to enjoy all of the benefits of meeting said standard. If women and politicians want TRUE equality in the military, they would hold all servicemembers (regardless of sex) to the same standard. However, this will not happen for a few reasons. I will speak to Marine Corps standards as obviously I am more familiar with those than other (lesser) services.

    1) I believe a lot of women can meet our annual minimum standard of 3 pullups, 44 crunches in 2 minutes, and a 3 mile run in at least 28 minutes. Just for a little background, the male point scale is 5 points per pullup up to 20 (40 points for 3 pullups for women, then increasing to 65 for 4, and up by 10 to 8 pullups), 1 point per crunch, and 1 point taken away per ten seconds starting at 18:01 (21:01 for females) on the run. All of this equals a 300 point scale. A first class score is 225-300. The issue is that women can't much better than the minimum, especially on the pull up portion, if held to the men's standard. A woman running faster than 21 minutes on a 3 mile run is extremely rare. Even when I attended Drill Instructor school with females, one of whom was a former gymnast and in extremely good shape, I did not have any females run faster than 21:30. Also, the gymnast could only do 12 pullups. That is a lot, for a woman. But we shouldn't say that should we? If we are truly seeking equality, I should be able to say that she was slightly above average, FOR A MARINE.

    2) Our Combat Fitness Test is also an annual requirement that again has different standards for both sexes. The scoring for this test is a little more complicated than the PFT, so I will save the pain of posting it. However, it does involve Marines "fireman's" carrying other Marines during the "maneuver under fire" portion of the test. Men are required to complete this and other events within the maneuver under fire portion in 3 min 29 seconds. Women are given 4 min 57 seconds. This, again, is not equal and should be addressed. Where is the outcry for this inequality? You don't hear it. Why? Because leaders, politicians, and women know that they can't hang with men's scores. They don't want to be E-2's and E-3's for their entire first enlistment. So they keep their mouth shut about that inequality.

    3) The point of all of this is that women would never get promoted. They would be in the back of the pack due to physical standards that weigh very heavily into the composite score Marines accumulate for various measurable skills (rifle range score, combat fitness test score, physical fitness test score, etc). The only answer would be to relax the standards for men to bring down the bar instead of raise females to the bar. Is that really what we want to do? Lower the bar for everyone and make the force less competent to make a few people feel included?

    4) Will women be willing to share facilities with men? I doubt it. Why not? This is inequality is it not? Why should a woman rate her own shower and bathroom facilities that will inevitably be much nicer than the males due to the lack of usage. Where is the outrage about this?

    5) Will women be held to the same standard as men in recruit training? Why is the minimum miles per hour for our hikes 4 mph and theirs 3 mph?

    6) Why do women get their own, shorter Obstacle Course in recruit training? Why don't they use the same one's the males use? If they can't get up to the 8 foot bar that we use and instead get to use the 6 foot bar, isn't that inequality?

    I say all of this to point out the fact that the cry for equality in the military is a hypocritical one to say the least. The SecDef, Joint Chiefs, politicians, and women want the rewards men earn given to females yet don't want them to be held to the same standards as those men. If they all want equality, they should want women to meet the same standards as we do. This will not happen though for one simple reason. If women were held to our standard, VERY few of them would ever make it passed E-3 to E-4 in the Marine Corps. They would never be allowed to be a Sergeant because they wouldnt meet the standard. And God forbid we have THAT inequality of men always leading women. How dare we hold everyone to one standard.
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