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Pentagon to overturn ban on women in military combat roles

Hicup said:
Dude, Puleeeessseee... yeah sure, one female to every 5000 men isn't exactly pulling equal duty sparky. Stop with the usual liberal, and typical exception to the rule argument. You look like a fool. Yes women have died from enemy gunfire by happenstance, NOT by design. If you want to delude yourself into some ridiculous comparison then by all means. I live in the real world sugar. :)


Tim-
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Who said anything about equal duty?
In your world male soldiers are killed "by design"? What does that even mean?
Women have died while participating in active combat if that is what you are saying.
 
iguanaman said:
Who said anything about equal duty?
In your world male soldiers are killed "by design"? What does that even mean?
Women have died while participating in active combat if that is what you are saying.
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Design as in men fight against other men on both sides.. Why am i speaking to you?

Oh and yeah women have died while eating ice cream on the south side of Chicago, and your point is what exactly?

Tim-
 
I'm more than okay with women fighting on the front lines. We ALL should have the opportunity to stand the wall if we wish, and to make the same cut. All men who enlist are not cut out for front line duty, same for all women. The ones who can make the grade should be allowed the position.

Look, it took 60 years after black men got the vote for women in America to be granted the same. Our society, our world, has spent our history telling the people who raised, taught, nurtured and supported us that they are less than capable, incompetent by birth. It's been a long time coming but it's long since time we grew the hell up.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Oh Jesus YES! I spent 15 months carrying over a hundred god damn pounds on my back walking through the ****ing hindu kush. Afghanistan is NOT iraq. Most of the combat isn't in vehicles, it's humping and hating life.
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That's a physical requirement. Not the all of the PT test.
 
Mr.Nick said:
But woman cant keep up - it's physically impossible. The simple fact they have wider hips will slow them down. Woman are not built for extreme physical activities. Of course they can do extreme physical activities but the male will always be faster and more durable.
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I don't buy that either. It's rarely a sprint, and many women walk quite fast. me on the other hand, I'm slow by nature. Wide base don't ya know. ;)
 
Boo Radley said:
I don't buy that either. It's rarely a sprint, and many women walk quite fast. me on the other hand, I'm slow by nature. Wide base don't ya know. ;)
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If you're slow then you will fail basic training. We're talking about standards here.

It's basic physics that woman are slower than men.

Why the hell do you think woman don't compete against men in sports? Hell my beer league hockey team could beat Team USA or Team Canada womans teams in a hockey game.

The notion we're even having a discussion that woman are as physically strong and fast as men is delusional...

Woman are better than men at some things and men are better than woman at some things - this just happens to be a case where men are superior... The notion woman are even close to men in physical strength, durability, stamina etc is downright ridiculous.

Now, If a woman can actually keep up with the guys - great - however I don't see that happening. If a woman can do that she would be better off competing in the Olympics than trying to prove herself in combat.
 
Boo Radley said:
That's a physical requirement. Not the all of the PT test.
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The PFT standards aren't going to be raised for female soldiers, so it's purdy much a dead issue. When troops hit the battlefield, it's too late to find out that a soldier can't handle the physical rigors of infantry life.

However, I can see it now, the standards for the Expert Infantry Test will be lowered, because women won't be able to meet the current standards.
 
For anyone who is confused or uninformed about the type of fighting that is happening in afghanistan, I would highly recommend the documentary 'Restrepo' to you. It follows one of the battalions from my brigade (the 173rd) during our 07-08 deployment.

It will become exceptionally obvious to those that claim that warfare is all fought with technology and from vehicles, that this simply isn't the case. For the most part it's humping through the mountains, and it's brutally overwhelming combat.

 
I don't expect that near as many women as men will meet the base physical requirements for the duty. Those who do however should get the shot at it.
 
Hicup said:
Dude, Puleeeessseee... yeah sure, one female to every 5000 men isn't exactly pulling equal duty sparky. Stop with the usual liberal, and typical exception to the rule argument. You look like a fool. Yes women have died from enemy gunfire by happenstance, NOT by design. If you want to delude yourself into some ridiculous comparison then by all means. I live in the real world sugar. :)


Tim-
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This woman is one of my personal heroes. She is every bit as capable of serving in combat as any male I served with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leigh_Ann_Hester
 
Boo Radley said:
I think you're making a distinction without a meaning. We know they were and are not actively out running those types of missions. The argument is the battlefield is no longer structured that way. The old paradigm no longer holds meaning. And in this new paradigm women are in fact already on the front lines. They are correct.
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The battlefield isn't structured that way though. Patrols are sent out for the express purpose of locating the enemy and engaging them. What do people think we do over there? Ride around and wait to be shot at? That's not the case at all. I think it was said best by General Barrow, 27th Commandant of the Marine Corps. "EXPOSURE to danger is not combat. Being shot at, even being killed, is not combat. Combat is finding . . . closing with . . . and killing or capturing the enemy."
 
RabidAlpaca said:
For anyone who is confused or uninformed about the type of fighting that is happening in afghanistan, I would highly recommend the documentary 'Restrepo' to you. It follows one of the battalions from my brigade (the 173rd) during our 07-08 deployment.

It will become exceptionally obvious to those that claim that warfare is all fought with technology and from vehicles, that this simply isn't the case. For the most part it's humping through the mountains, and it's brutally overwhelming combat.

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A great, great movie my brother. I have watched that movie at least 3 times, maybe 4. I was in awe of those guys sometimes. And that's saying a lot for a Marine to say he was in awe of a hooah lol.
 
MarineTpartier said:
A great, great movie my brother. I have watched that movie at least 3 times, maybe 4. I was in awe of those guys sometimes. And that's saying a lot for a Marine to say he was in awe of a hooah lol.
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I was a valley over from them, where it was luckily a smidge quieter. The Korengal is the worst place on the planet. It baffles me how little people actually know about America's longest war.

EDIT: We actually had 2 Marines integrated with us in our company. They were primarily in charge of training the ANA.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I was a valley over from them, where it was luckily a smidge quieter. The Korengal is the worst place on the planet. It baffles me how little people actually know about America's longest war.
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I know bro. I was in the Sangin River Valley. Hate that place.
 
Mr.Nick said:
If you're slow then you will fail basic training. We're talking about standards here.

It's basic physics that woman are slower than men.

Why the hell do you think woman don't compete against men in sports? Hell my beer league hockey team could beat Team USA or Team Canada womans teams in a hockey game.

The notion we're even having a discussion that woman are as physically strong and fast as men is delusional...

Woman are better than men at some things and men are better than woman at some things - this just happens to be a case where men are superior... The notion woman are even close to men in physical strength, durability, stamina etc is downright ridiculous.

Now, If a woman can actually keep up with the guys - great - however I don't see that happening. If a woman can do that she would be better off competing in the Olympics than trying to prove herself in combat.
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Well, I didn't. The little thing with that female trooper in the laundry was dicey, but not being able to do the inverted crawl didn't get me kicked out.

The point was, that moving isn't that fast. My humor want really the point.

As for women in sports, many can kick my butt. Yours too I suspect.
 
apdst said:
The PFT standards aren't going to be raised for female soldiers, so it's purdy much a dead issue. When troops hit the battlefield, it's too late to find out that a soldier can't handle the physical rigors of infantry life.

However, I can see it now, the standards for the Expert Infantry Test will be lowered, because women won't be able to meet the current standards.
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Then you you be with me in actively questioning those standards. Either prove they are needed, or they are not. But if they are lowered, and women do handle combat, then it will be clear you were wrong. I would prefer a real effort to question tis before finding out.
 
MarineTpartier said:
The battlefield isn't structured that way though. Patrols are sent out for the express purpose of locating the enemy and engaging them. What do people think we do over there? Ride around and wait to be shot at? That's not the case at all. I think it was said best by General Barrow, 27th Commandant of the Marine Corps. "EXPOSURE to danger is not combat. Being shot at, even being killed, is not combat. Combat is finding . . . closing with . . . and killing or capturing the enemy."
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That's only part of combat. Sometimes the enemy comes to you. And yes, when the enemy is not an army, but the working next to you, you are on the frontline.
 
Boo Radley said:
That's only part of combat. Sometimes the enemy comes to you. And yes, when the enemy is not an army, but the working next to you, you are on the frontline.
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So why should we allow women to serve when they can only execute part of the duties required for combat?
 
MarineTpartier said:
So why should we allow women to serve when they can only execute part of the duties required for combat?
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Don't limit them. I think you're missing what s being said. You're the one saying they are limited, not me.
 
madman said:
pardon the ignorance, but arent women already permitted to fight in combat? After all, my best friends daughter is a gunner and has been wounded.
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From what I have read they participate in these roles but aren't officially recognized as such.
 
Boo Radley said:
Well, I didn't. The little thing with that female trooper in the laundry was dicey, but not being able to do the inverted crawl didn't get me kicked out.

The point was, that moving isn't that fast. My humor want really the point.

As for women in sports, many can kick my butt. Yours too I suspect.
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I'm an artist, I know the shape of a woman and why they cannot keep up with a man. They have an hour glass shape, we have wide hips and our shoulders are broad... As an artist you learn the differences (not the junk) between a man and a woman.

I know this from my art - I have asked the question already.

The wide hips are a problem.. A good problem if you want to have children.
 
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