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Pentagon to overturn ban on women in military combat roles

Pentagon to overturn ban on women in military combat roles | World news | guardian.co.uk


Personally, I'm fine with this as long as they physical requirements are the same. If you can't lift enough or run long enough, you're putting other people in extra danger as well as yourself.

I might be ok with it if they keep the physical and mental requirements 100% the same. My biggest concern is the hygiene requirements. From what I understand the Army requires that all females be able to shower at least once every 3 days. I went weeks and weeks without anything even resembling a shower, sitting on OPs on the top of mountains. For 6 months at our COP we had nothing but water bottle showers.

I just don't see how females could go through that hygenically. I know even us males suffered pretty bad from it.

The sort of fighting that occurs in a COIN environment is much different than a conventional war. Women routinely see combat as they pass by an ambush in a vehicle. My 7 year old could do that. I'm talking about locating, closing with, and destroying the enemy by fire and maneuver Private Ryan style. Someday, we will be in a conventional war again. And when we get to that point, the females will not be able to keep up. That's not sexist, it's just a fact.

What they don't realize is that in a lot of places in afghanistan, it STILL is like that. Foot patrols through the mountains every day and contact several times a week.
 
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Warfare, like everything else, is becoming more mechanized. This will be a moot issue very soon, since robots will be doing almost all of the fighting.
 
Warfare, like everything else, is becoming more mechanized. This will be a moot issue very soon, since robots will be doing almost all of the fighting.

Not that I believe warfare will ever become totally mechanized, but until then this is a very bad idea.
 
Warfare, like everything else, is becoming more mechanized. This will be a moot issue very soon, since robots will be doing almost all of the fighting.

I call dibs on at least one BattleMech.
 
Not that I believe warfare will ever become totally mechanized, but until then this is a very bad idea.

Since most men don't win arguments with their women anyway it might work well.
Think about it have a hot looking babe dancing on a hill distracting the enemy, while the other troops sneak up on them. ;)
 
I rarely agree with Tigger on issues, but I got to say that I do in this instance. Not for the fact that I don't think women should be in the military because they should be allowed if they want to be. However, if they are to go into combat than they should be held to the exact same standards as men when it comes to PT and other rigorous training. If we are going to continue to use the Selective Service then women should be added to it if we're going to allow them into combat.
 
Since most men don't win arguments with their women anyway it might work well.
Think about it have a hot looking babe dancing on a hill distracting the enemy, while the other troops sneak up on them. ;)

If there's an army unit that could be distracted enough by a dancing woman to lose all unit integrity, they deserve to die.
 
Putting aside for the moment the fact that I am opposed to women in most military duties to begin with.....

The ONLY way that I could see this being acceptable would be if these women were held to exactly the same standards that men are for the same MOS's. If there is an existing height/weight requirement, they should have to meet it. Certain PT criteria.... they should have to meet them. Training and capability requirement should be exactly the same. NO EXCEPTIONS. ONLY, if these women can meet those same criteria should they be allowed to be in these roles. Either that, or reduced the criteria for the men as well.

Additionally, if this goes into place, all American women should be required to register with selective services.

This should have been done initially. It is rediculous to have "separate but unequal" standards for anything. I imagine that instead of raising the standards for women (using the existing male standards) that they will instead lower the standards for "all" and adopt the lower standards now used for women; otherwise many women would be forced out of their current military jobs (and cry).
 
If there's an army unit that could be distracted enough by a dancing woman to lose all unit integrity, they deserve to die.

It would only work a few times before they caught on but how many dudes still can't help it?
 
It might work if combat arms units are segregated by gender, but co-ed units will be a failure.

Israel would like a word with you.
 
This should have been done initially. It is rediculous to have "separate but unequal" standards for anything. I imagine that instead of raising the standards for women (using the existing male standards) that they will instead lower the standards for "all" and adopt the lower standards now used for women; otherwise many women would be forced out of their current military jobs (and cry).

You're probably correct, thereby reducing the quality of the armed forces significantly. Gotta love it.
 
You're probably correct, thereby reducing the quality of the armed forces significantly. Gotta love it.

It is the only "fair" thing to do! We must ever lower the expectations/standards to prove that all have "equal" opportunity to succeed - lest we damage the self esteem of those previously thought (correctly) to be failures. One only need to look a K-12 pubic eduction to see this "fairness" trend. A HS diploma no longer means that one has a solid grasp of "HS level" English and math, merely that one has spent the requisite (or close enough for that state) time in class.
 
It is the only "fair" thing to do! We must ever lower the expectations/standards to prove that all have "equal" opportunity to succeed - lest we damage the self esteem of those previously thought (correctly) to be failures. One only need to look a K-12 pubic eduction to see this "fairness" trend. A HS diploma no longer means that one has a solid grasp of "HS level" English and math, merely that one has spent the requisite (or close enough for that state) time in class.

Has anyone but you actually advocated reducing standards?
 
It would only work a few times before they caught on but how many dudes still can't help it?

Unfortunately probably a whole lot of them. Some of us have a little more self-control and sense of duty, thankfully.
 
Has anyone but you actually advocated reducing standards?

Not yet. This directive has given the military until May 15, 2013 to come up with a plan on how to do this. I have little doubt that plan will include significant changes to the physical requirements for these Combat MOS's.
 
pardon the ignorance, but arent women already permitted to fight in combat? After all, my best friends daughter is a gunner and has been wounded.
 
Has anyone but you actually advocated reducing standards?

Not yet, but precedent for that surely exists. With upper body strength requirements now far different based on gender, either many (over half) of women will instantly fail or new (lower?) standards must be adopted; care to guess which will occur?

Get Over It! We Are Not All Created Equal | Marine Corps Gazette

NOTE: In the following example over 99% of females would fall short of the average male standard.
http://publicsafety.utah.gov/post/pdf/PT.pdf

http://womenandpolicing.com/pdf/PhysicalAgilityStudy.pdf

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Virginia New Achievement Standards Based On Race And Background

http://fitforce.org/documents/Microsoft_Word_-_Whitepaper_-_Age_and_gender_standards.0307.pdf

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pardon the ignorance, but arent women already permitted to fight in combat? After all, my best friends daughter is a gunner and has been wounded.

This all makes me think that some are trying to prevent women from getting military promotions. Because after all, im sure many men hate the idea of being told what to do by a "woman".
 
Israel would like a word with you.

So they could agree with me? It was the Israelis that proved coed combat arms units won't work.
 
Explain - center of gravity affects pushups? (genuine curiosity here). I remember the 'pick up the chair' thing when I was in school which was funny but I never quite got how it actually affected much else.

Chicks don't just do pushups from their knees due to strength, it has something to do with center of balance. This kinda makes the pushup test impossible to be the same, but pushups on knees is definately not good enough for elite infantry.
 
About 5-6 of us vets were sitting around talking about this at lunch, we all pretty much agreed. Dont change the training, but if they can do it, let them.

Can I question the validity of the training?
 
About 5-6 of us vets were sitting around talking about this at lunch, we all pretty much agreed. Dont change the training, but if they can do it, let them.

I agree....if someone doesn't cut it kick them out....just as you would do with any male.

I'm guessing the first couple of women to attempt it are going to be some pretty tough women.
 
This all makes me think that some are trying to prevent women from getting military promotions. Because after all, im sure many men hate the idea of being told what to do by a "woman".

Yes, military men are neanderthals that drool and scratch themselves when they see a woman. Get a clue.


And... why is 'woman' in quotes above? Are military chicks not real women according to you?
 
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