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Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody[W: 150]

winston53660 said:
You don't think those guys the crazy ones wouldn't figure it out? And how to knock the armed responders in the first place.
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Any other method to stop a school shooter is welcome. Problem is...you can't stop someone from forcing their way in...without force...or a ridiculously complex security system that would require physical barriers and someone would probably still need to be armed to keep the barriers up.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody[W: 1

winston53660 said:
You don't think those guys the crazy ones wouldn't figure it out? And how to knock the armed responders in the first place.
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uh that's why one guard or cop in uniform is not nearly as good as several staff members with CCWs whose identity is not obvious
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody[W: 1

TurtleDude said:
The only way to stop someone who has already decided he is going to die is to kill him before he kills lots of other people. and the only way to do that is to have armed responders on site at schools
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If I've decided to kill you, you can't stop me. I'm not letting you go for your gun. And even if you got your gun out, I doubt many would be calm enough to stop me. They will likely just add to the death toll. And the police might mistake you for the shooter. Considering the lack of need, and all of the risks, school simply isn't the place.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody[W: 1

Jerry said:
First things first: where did I link to Lott?

I tried haveing a decent, civil exploration of your opinion, and in return you wanted to **** allover this thread by accusing me of using Lott, so show me where I used Lott.
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I did no such thing. I said your thought, the premise comes from Lott. Know the difference.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody[W: 1

Jerry said:
That doesn't matter. Not at all.

Remember what I said about being 100% correct yet failing if your source material is bad? That's Lott. He was right, but his research sucked.

Other people came along and did much better research which proved the original claim.

So, back to point: Where did I source Lott's work to support my argument?
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It does matter. He was not correct. Sorry.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody[W: 1

Black Manta said:
we have to start someplace. if we are not willing to teach our children, we get exactly what we deserve.
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teach them what?
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody[W: 1

Jerry said:
I never sourced Lott.

I sourced Harvard, I sourced The Washington Times, and for flaver I posted a 6min video of a guy who sources the FBI and the UK's official crime statistics record.

Here is that post again, you tell me where Lott is used....


*****

Sources used in the video:





The AWB had failed to have an impact on gun crime in the United States. A 2004 Department of Justice report concluded:
Should it be renewed, the ban's effects on gun violence are likely to be small at best and perhaps too small for reliable measurement. [Assault weapons] were rarely used in gun crimes even before the ban.


Here are specific incidents of active shooters being stopped by armed civilians:

  • A 1997 high school shooting in Pearl, Miss., was halted by the school's vice principal after he retrieved the Colt .45 he kept in his truck.
  • A 1998 middle school shooting ended when a man living next door heard gunfire and apprehended the shooter with his shotgun.
  • A 2002 terrorist attack at an Israeli school was quickly stopped by an armed teacher and a school guard.
  • A 2002 law school shooting in Grundy, Va., came to an abrupt conclusion when students carrying firearms confronted the shooter.
  • A 2007 mall shooting in Salt Lake City, Utah, ended when an armed off-duty police officer intervened.
  • A 2009 workplace shooting in Houston, Texas, was halted by two coworkers who carried concealed handguns.
  • A 2012 church shooting in Aurora, Colo., was stopped by a member of the congregation carrying a gun.
  • At the recent mall shooting in Portland, Ore., the gunman took his own life minutes after being confronted by a shopper carrying a concealed weapon.


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You present information that is not on point. I have not claimed gun control reduces suicides or crime. I claim lack of gun control doesn't either. Harvard talks about a non-correlation and not a correlation between having guns and crime going down. Once again, you confuse issues, much as you do in the other thread.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody[W: 1

Boo Radley said:
teach them what?
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What we were just talking about, responsibility.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody[W: 1

Black Manta said:
What we were just talking about, responsibility.
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I don't think arming them teaches them responsibility. I can think of much less risky ways to teach responsibility.
 
Boo Radley said:
I don't think arming them teaches them responsibility. I can think of much less risky ways to teach responsibility.
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Was someone talking about arming children or adult security people around them?
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting

Jerry said:
You must think this my first debate or something :lol:

Every time some, on any topic, and on either side of a given topic, this isn't unique to any political group....says that no evidence exists for something, they always...always reject any and everything which is sourced after that statement.

You can go on thinking I have no such evidence, but as I posted a wall of all such evidence just last night on another thread, I know differently.

I'm not going to post it again on this thread because there is always the chance of getting points for spamming if I post my pre-written responces it to often.
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Since this is not your first time, you're certainly aware that you can post a link. You're just as certainly aware that posting research in response to a request is in no way infractable.

IOW, your response was dishonest
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody[W: 1

Jerry said:
Here is where you are supposed to lay out the argument concisely, not link to somewhere off DebatePolitics.com where the argument can be found. The point of this site is to have the argument here.
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And yet, contrary to this post of yours, you refuse to do so and instead dishonestly claim that if you were to do so, you would get an infraction
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody[W: 1

Jerry said:
Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers.
Luke, 6:44

I'm putting out Harvard, FBI, CDC, quoting state laws and SCOTUS decisions...and all the anti-gunners are using is wiki and a couple kook blogs.

#lowinformationvoters
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You are using studies that only show correlations, while claiming that correlation doesn't prove causation
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody[W: 1

Jerry said:
I never sourced Lott.

I sourced Harvard, I sourced The Washington Times, and for flaver I posted a 6min video of a guy who sources the FBI and the UK's official crime statistics record.

Here is that post again, you tell me where Lott is used....


*****

Sources used in the video:





The AWB had failed to have an impact on gun crime in the United States. A 2004 Department of Justice report concluded:
Should it be renewed, the ban's effects on gun violence are likely to be small at best and perhaps too small for reliable measurement. [Assault weapons] were rarely used in gun crimes even before the ban.


Here are specific incidents of active shooters being stopped by armed civilians:

  • A 1997 high school shooting in Pearl, Miss., was halted by the school's vice principal after he retrieved the Colt .45 he kept in his truck.
  • A 1998 middle school shooting ended when a man living next door heard gunfire and apprehended the shooter with his shotgun.
  • A 2002 terrorist attack at an Israeli school was quickly stopped by an armed teacher and a school guard.
  • A 2002 law school shooting in Grundy, Va., came to an abrupt conclusion when students carrying firearms confronted the shooter.
  • A 2007 mall shooting in Salt Lake City, Utah, ended when an armed off-duty police officer intervened.
  • A 2009 workplace shooting in Houston, Texas, was halted by two coworkers who carried concealed handguns.
  • A 2012 church shooting in Aurora, Colo., was stopped by a member of the congregation carrying a gun.
  • At the recent mall shooting in Portland, Ore., the gunman took his own life minutes after being confronted by a shopper carrying a concealed weapon.


Click to expand...


You said you had proof that more guns = less crime that didn't rely on correlation
Then you said you wouldn't post the stats because you'd get an

Now, you're posting your stats, and every one of them relies of the cause = correllation fallacy

Thanks for proving the dishonesty of your posts, and the accuracy of mine
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody[W: 1

Jerry said:
There are 11 links in that post.

Not one of them lead you to Lott.
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All of them depend on the correlation = causation fallacy, despite your dishonest claim that you had proof
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody[W: 1

sangha said:
All of them depend on the correlation = causation fallacy, despite your dishonest claim that you had proof
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Not even one of them depend on the correlation = causation fallacy. If they did then you would have mechanically demonstrated such. You haven't because you can't because they don't.
 
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Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody[W: 1

Jerry said:
Not even one of them depend on the correlation = causation fallacy. If they did then you would mechanically demonstrated such. You haven't because you can't because they don't.
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Every single one depends the correlation = causation fallacy. Your claim of having proof has been proven to be false
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody[W: 1

sangha said:
Every single one depends the correlation = causation fallacy. Your claim of having proof has been proven to be false
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Simply squaking "that's a fallacy" doesn't make it so, and FalacyFiles.com will even tell you that. For each fallacy there is a specific way to expose it.

You aren't following the exposition procedure for the correlation fallacy, you're just repeating "that's a fallacy".

That you aren't following the exposition procedure for the correlation fallacy betrays your low skill at debate.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody[W: 1

Jerry said:
Simply squaking "that's a fallacy" doesn't make it so, and FalacyFiles.com will even tell you that. For each fallacy there is a specific way to expose it.

You aren't following the exposition procedure for the correlation falacy, you're just repeating "that's a fallacy".

Constantly repeating something doesn't make it so.
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But it *is* a fallacy. Even you admitted that it was and denied that you were depending on it.

Now, you're admitting that you do depend on it, and it's not a fallacy

Though I have to admit, your constantly shifting arguments gaurantees that repeating yourself is unlikely
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody[W: 1

stonewall50 said:
Was someone talking about arming children or adult security people around them?
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Students.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody[W: 1

sangha said:
But it *is* a fallacy.
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You're welcome to use the exposition procedure for the correlation fallacy from FalacyFiles.com and mechanically demonstrate that claim whenever you want.

sangha said:
Even you admitted that it was and denied that you were depending on it.
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I denied ever using Lott.

"More guns = less crime" is a true statement independent of Lott.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody[W: 1

stonewall50 said:
Was someone talking about arming children or adult security people around them?
Click to expand...
No part of this discussion is about children. LoneStar doesn't even have a daycare. This discussion is about a collage, not an elementary school. We're talking about adults and adults only. Specifically, we're talking about adults who also have a CCW issued by the state of TX.

The collage is not going to arm anyone. The State is passing a law allowing citizens who have a TX CCW to carry on collage property.

That's all it is.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody[W: 1

Jerry said:
You're welcome to use the exposition procedure for the correlation fallacy from FalacyFiles.com and mechanically demonstrate that claim whenever you want.


I denied ever using Lott.

"More guns = less crime" is a true statement independent of Lott.
Click to expand...

No, you denied using the "correlation = causation fallacy", though you now call it "proof" :lol:
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody[W: 1

sangha said:
No, you denied using the "correlation = causation fallacy", though you now call it "proof" :lol:
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You're welcome to mechanically demonstrate that any time you want.

That you haven't, is quite telling.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody[W: 1

Jerry said:
You're welcome to mechanically demonstrate that any time you want.

That you haven't, is quite telling.
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no problem

sangha said:
Since you are arguing that correlation = causality, how do you explain the fact that crime has dropped while the rate of gun ownership has dropped?
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Jerry said:
Your statement has a false premise. Please revise and redress.
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sangha said:
I see no false premise. Could you idenitify this premise and explain why it's false
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Jerry said:
Certainly:

sangha said:
Since you are arguing that correlation = causality, how do you explain the fact that crime has dropped while the rate of gun ownership has dropped?
Click to expand...





I don't make that argument.

Please correct your error and redress your question.
Click to expand...
 
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