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Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody[W: 150]

Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody

Ikari said:
The individual is a probability, the government is a guarantee.
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That's not the lived experience here, and I doubt very much that it is there, either.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody

Ikari said:
Yes, I read that. Believe it or not, as a PhD physicist, I can actually read. You wanted to present that comment as some form of evidence as to why the individual should be restricted; which is why I asked the follow up.
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Well, I never doubted you could read, as I've often commended your comments. But in context, I was saying if police have such problems, can we expect better from civilians? My experience, which I always note is limited and not equal to a real study, tells me we shoot each other a lot more than we will ever protect ourselves from criminals. And I gave some examples.

Now on one of these threads I linked study numbers that back that up as well.

I think the limitations being proposed are minor, and neither fix any problem or deny people the right to protect themselves. How far they can go will eventually be decided in the courts. And I'll easily live with whatever they rule.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody

Manc Skipper said:
That's not the lived experience here, and I doubt very much that it is there, either.
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Yeah? I don't know. Before a terrorist hijacking a plane was a probability. It could happen, every so often it did. Now, I can't get through the airport without TSA searching the bejesus out of me and treating me as something less than human.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody

Boo Radley said:
Well, I never doubted you could read, as I've often commended your comments. But in context, I was saying if police have such problems, can we expect better from civilians?
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If the police have such problems, should we strip the People of their ability to defend themselves? The government isn't doing the best of jobs...so the solution is more government?
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody

Jack Fabulous said:
Sheriff Andy Taylor never carried a gun, if memory serves me correct...
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Sometimes he did when he felt it necessary and that, as a responsible adult, was his decision to make. He had ready access to a variety of weapons.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody

Ikari said:
If the police have such problems, should we strip the People of their ability to defend themselves? The government isn't doing the best of jobs...so the solution is more government?
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I might agree with you if I thought they would do better, but as I think they would do worse and add to the death toll numbers and not protect much of anything, I'm hesitant. At the end of the day, well trained people are better than untrained people.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody

Ikari said:
I am not responsible for other people's comments. Kindly refrain from holding me as such.
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What? Man you really need to go back and read what we were talking about before coming to an asinine conclusion.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody

Boo Radley said:
I might agree with you if I thought they would do better, but as I think they would do worse and add to the death toll numbers and not protect much of anything, I'm hesitant. At the end of the day, well trained people are better than untrained people.
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I don't know if they would do better or not, and aggregate over a large enough population and you'll have a non-zero percentage that don't. But I don't think I have the rightful force to stop them. At the end of the day, well trained people ARE better than untrained people. But perhaps it's better just to make available general training rather than restricting particularly given the demonstrated failure modes of government.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody

Grant said:
You can bet it never happened in Chicago. That community is organized, and guns are banned.
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17 people were shot over the weekend 2 died.

Of course that is no where near the 48 shot over a weekend this past summer in which 8 died.

Of course that is just reported numbers. I've been shot at a couple of times and I never reported it, I've seen drive bys and they were never reported.

My buddy used to live on 79th and Brandon and when I would wait for the train at 79th and Western all you would hear every second was "pop pop pop" and it never stopped... It was nothing short of a combat zone for all purposes. Probably more dangerous than Iraq.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody

Ikari said:
The individual is a probability, the government is a guarantee.
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Let's see your figures that show the police in the US kill more innocent people each year than do non-police.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody

Ikari said:
I don't know if they would do better or not, and aggregate over a large enough population and you'll have a non-zero percentage that don't. But I don't think I have the rightful force to stop them. At the end of the day, well trained people ARE better than untrained people. But perhaps it's better just to make available general training rather than restricting particularly given the demonstrated failure modes of government.
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I'm not sure the failure is the governments as their role is rather limited. Instead, a country fully in love with guns might have a cultural failure. I think there is enough evidence to question that if not answer it fully.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody

Catawba said:
Let's see your figures that show the police in the US kill more innocent people each year than do non-police.
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Are those figures kept? That's certainly something I wouldn't necessarily think the government would record and make available. One is too many. One is license for the People to have the means to resist.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody

Boo Radley said:
I'm not sure the failure is the governments as their role is rather limited. Instead, a country fully in love with guns might have a cultural failure. I think there is enough evidence to question that if not answer it fully.
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Limited? When was the last time you did something without government involvement? There are certainly dangers associated with freedom, but as freedom is inherently dangerous there's nothing much one can do about it. Live free or live enslaved; those are your choices. Both have dangers.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody

Catawba said:
Let's see your figures that show the police in the US kill more innocent people each year than do non-police.
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They are all innocent until proven guilty :) (Though I have seen some pretty alarming numbers on the numbers of mentally ill killed by the police)
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody

Fisher said:
They are all innocent until proven guilty :) (Though I have seen some pretty alarming numbers on the numbers of mentally ill killed by the police)
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I'd actually like to see the complete, unadulterated stats on how many people a year cops kill. I don't think they release that number though.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody

Ikari said:
I'd actually like to see the complete, unadulterated stats on how many people a year cops kill. I don't think they release that number though.
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I have seen some state numbers. It suggested almost half of those shot by cops were mentally ill. Maybe those two pieces of info will give you some guidance for a google search for at least some press articles. When I am feeling a little more focused, I will try to see if I can find some nationals statistics for your consideration.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody

Mr.Nick said:
17 people were shot over the weekend 2 died.

Of course that is no where near the 48 shot over a weekend this past summer in which 8 died.

Of course that is just reported numbers. I've been shot at a couple of times and I never reported it, I've seen drive bys and they were never reported.

My buddy used to live on 79th and Brandon and when I would wait for the train at 79th and Western all you would hear every second was "pop pop pop" and it never stopped... It was nothing short of a combat zone for all purposes. Probably more dangerous than Iraq.
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It reads like farce of the worst kind. If this ongoing, and tragic, story was submitted for a possible book it would be rejected as being too far from any possibility reality.

But there it is.Chicago Homicides Outnumber U.S. Troop Killings In Afghanistan
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody

Ikari said:
Are those figures kept?

That's certainly something I wouldn't necessarily think the government would record and make available. One is too many. One is license for the People to have the means to resist.
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You are the one that made the claim. On what did you base that claim?
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody

Catawba said:
You are the one that made the claim. On what did you base that claim?
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On the fact that cops kill people.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody

Boo Radley said:
I'm not sure the failure is the governments as their role is rather limited. Instead, a country fully in love with guns might have a cultural failure. I think there is enough evidence to question that if not answer it fully.
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That's quite possible.

The hypocrisy of Hollywood and its contribution to gun violence has been well documented.
 
Re: Lone Star College Shooting Leaves 3 Injured, 'Person of Interest' in Custody

Ikari said:
I'd actually like to see the complete, unadulterated stats on how many people a year cops kill. I don't think they release that number though.
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After surfing this a bit, you are correct--there is no official database that tracks these things. In various articles, the stat that about 1 person a day is shot and killed by the police did appear in multiple sources, but that appears to have been gleaned from a study that covered a period of years in the 80's-early 90's. I suspect it is higher. I did find one study that indicated there were on average .9/1000 officers involved in a fatal shooting in the mid 90's and .2/1000 involved in a non-fatal shooting, but that was as close as I could get.
 
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