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Thread: Private sales at gun show on hold after three hurt in accidental shooting

  1. #71
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    Re: Private sales at gun show on hold after three hurt in accidental shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Exactly what state has a law that you have to rope your gun at a gun show? I've never heard of that at all.

    Even then, apparently it's something that gun shows do regardless of the law, because they feel unsafe with responsible gun owners handling their own personal property. It's not all the evil liberals fault.
    I believe that Massachusetts may have a statute on having loaded firearms at a show.

    In my experience it's more a matter of separating the fireams from the ammunition in general; which is a big thing at all of the shows I've been at here in the Northeast. There is NO ammunition allowed inside the hall at all. Not for sale or carry. All ammunition sales are required to take place outside of the main hall, generally in a tent in the parking lot.

    Unfortunately, since nobody is required to have a permit to attend a show, or even have taken a safety class, this separation of firearms and ammunition makes a lot of sense. Whether it's for sale or carry. The potential for stupid people to do stupid things is high enough that it warrants this sort of measure. I do think it's overkill to some degree, but I'd rather err a little on the side of safety than to see some sort of accident occur. Hell, I get muzzle-swept by idiots looking at guns so often at these events, I have to keep myself from verbally abusing half the morons there.

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    Re: Private sales at gun show on hold after three hurt in accidental shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Why doesn't their belief in the Second Amendment's granting unlimited rights on not only gun ownership but gun carrying extend into gun shows? Why should a 'trained and responsible' gun owner have to give up his rights in a place that is supposedly all about extending said rights? If those gun owners are willing to give up their rights in order to attend a gun show, why can't they understand that other Americans have the right to ask the same of the gun owners as the gun show operators ask? - give up your Second Amendment rights to enter a place where people demand it of you.
    For a very simple reason, as I just pointed out in my previous post.... Because we are not the only people who will be at the show. There will be members of the public who have never touched a gun before at these events. People who have no clue as to firearms safety or safe gun handling practices. Therefore, as a general safety precaution no ammunition is allowed inside the exhibition hall. All ammunition displays and sales are required to occur outside of the exhibition hall. It's not about limiting our rights as much as it is about ensuring the safety of the morons who really don't belong there in the first place.

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    Re: Private sales at gun show on hold after three hurt in accidental shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    No, I'm not at all. At no point did I force anyone to rope their guns because of a few stupid people. YOU are defending the actions of the people that run the gun shows in where they show that they do not trust the owners of the guns to act responsibly. I am not mistaking anything. You are giving the exact same excuse to defend the people that run the gun shows that some liberals give in order to defend the idea we can't trust people with assault weapons and 30 round clips.

    Again, think before you insult all liberals as you have done in this thread. Because it makes you look silly to dismiss an entire group as stupid and then show that you actually believe in their reasoning.
    I was not intending to defend them, I was responding to a generalization that I saw in your first comment that I commented on. Personally, I think open carry with loaded should be allowed at gun shows. Then, it would encourage everyone there to properly practice safety techniques instead of making assumptions based upon the "safety" of the checks when entering.

    I don't know why they require such procedures in some areas. Whether it is some sort of law or liability requirement.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: Private sales at gun show on hold after three hurt in accidental shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    I was not intending to defend them, I was responding to a generalization that I saw in your first comment that I commented on. Personally, I think open carry with loaded should be allowed at gun shows. Then, it would encourage everyone there to properly practice safety techniques instead of making assumptions based upon the "safety" of the checks when entering.

    I don't know why they require such procedures in some areas. Whether it is some sort of law or liability requirement.
    Sorry, it sure seemed like you comment about how there's always a few stupid people was you defending the safety precautions. Maybe I just misread what you said.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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    Re: Private sales at gun show on hold after three hurt in accidental shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Yeah, that must be the reason why American internet services are falling behind those found in other nations - because government control of public utilities is so inefficient
    America: Land of the Slow - NYTimes.com

    from your same linked site - Listverse.com "Ultimate Top 10 Lists" Top 10 Reasons Why Capitalism Sucks - Listverse


    Both lists offer hyperbole and some bad history as justification for their points
    Dictated outcomes has always been the problem.....

    Thats certainly what you want.....

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    Re: Private sales at gun show on hold after three hurt in accidental shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I believe that Massachusetts may have a statute on having loaded firearms at a show.
    That does not force them to string a rope through all of the guns as a safety precaution. I don't believe there is a law forcing them to do that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    In my experience it's more a matter of separating the fireams from the ammunition in general; which is a big thing at all of the shows I've been at here in the Northeast. There is NO ammunition allowed inside the hall at all. Not for sale or carry. All ammunition sales are required to take place outside of the main hall, generally in a tent in the parking lot.
    Again, why? These are responsible gun owners practicing their second amendment right. At least I thought that was the position of conservatives.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Unfortunately, since nobody is required to have a permit to attend a show, or even have taken a safety class, this separation of firearms and ammunition makes a lot of sense. Whether it's for sale or carry. The potential for stupid people to do stupid things is high enough that it warrants this sort of measure.
    Lol, right. You realize that I can go out and buy a gun right now without a safety class or permit, right? Again, if the person walked in with a gun, that is their personal gun. If they didn't walk in with a gun then the only place they could get a gun is from a responsible gun owner, and don't you think a responsible gun owner would ask about the persons experience before handing over a gun?

    THIS WREAKS OF TYRANNY! WHY DO YOU WANT TO TAKE AWAY THE RIGHTS OF GUN OWNERS BECAUSE OF A STUPID FEW? DO THEY BAN HAMMERS AND KNIVES INSIDE THE GUN SHOW? BECAUSE THEY KILL MORE PEOPLE? WHY DO THEY PICK ON GUNS? WE ARE RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS!!!!

    Sound familiar?

    This is hilarious, to a degree that I haven't seen in a long time. Follow your own logic here. Tell me if you disagree with any statement that I am about to make.

    1. We have the right to keep and bear arms. This shall not be infringed.
    2. We can not infringe this right because of a stupid few.
    3. With less guns, and less ability to use them, we become less safe, with more guns and more ability to use them (larger clips etc) we become more safe.
    4. Even to the point that we should teach and arm school teachers and staff.
    5. At a gun show, where there are more guns on site than probably any other place on earth, except for possibly a military storage center or an incredibly large gun store, separation of firearms and ammunition makes a lot of sense, due to the fact that there could be few stupid people around. In the interest of safety, we need to make sure there are no loaded guns being brandied about.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I do think it's overkill to some degree, but I'd rather err a little on the side of safety than to see some sort of accident occur. Hell, I get muzzle-swept by idiots looking at guns so often at these events, I have to keep myself from verbally abusing half the morons there.
    Absolutely, that would be insane. Could you imagine if there was a place where those morons could go and buy all the guns they wanted without so much as a simple back ground check? Like a gun show or something? But that wouldn't really matter, because then they would just be idiots with guns out in the country, not standing right next to you or anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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    Re: Private sales at gun show on hold after three hurt in accidental shooting

    Moderator's Warning:
    Private sales at gun show on hold after three hurt in accidental shootingThis isn't a thread detailing the differences and percieved pitfalls of various political ideologies. If the two posters wish to continue that conversation they're welcome to take it to another thread. If it continues to derail this thread, action will be taken.

  8. #78
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    Re: Private sales at gun show on hold after three hurt in accidental shooting

    I would like to apologise for my posts, 44, 55, 58 & 65, they were off topic for this thread. I let emotions control my responses and not rationality.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: Private sales at gun show on hold after three hurt in accidental shooting

    Roughdraft, tell me you're going on and on with this attempt to drum out hypocrisy understanding full well the ridiculous notion of suggesting one's feelings about what's appropriate for a gun show, a private non-government entity, to be able to do and what the federal government should be able to do should be equal when a persons issue is constitutionally based?

    I understand the point you're making in terms of "If it doesn't help with safety, why does the gun show do it"...but that only works if the person is arguing against government intervention simply on the "It doesn't work". It also ignores that scope expands issues significantly, sometimes exponentially. It's something I point out often during the "Why don't we do airport security like Israel" debates...something that works on a localized, small, controlled environment doesn't necessarily mean it'll work on a nation wide, more generalized type of situation.

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    Re: Private sales at gun show on hold after three hurt in accidental shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Roughdraft, tell me you're going on and on with this attempt to drum out hypocrisy understanding full well the ridiculous notion of suggesting one's feelings about what's appropriate for a gun show, a private non-government entity, to be able to do and what the federal government should be able to do should be equal when a persons issue is constitutionally based?

    I understand the point you're making in terms of "If it doesn't help with safety, why does the gun show do it"...but that only works if the person is arguing against government intervention simply on the "It doesn't work". It also ignores that scope expands issues significantly, sometimes exponentially. It's something I point out often during the "Why don't we do airport security like Israel" debates...something that works on a localized, small, controlled environment doesn't necessarily mean it'll work on a nation wide, more generalized type of situation.
    I understand, one is government based and the other is a private institution that can do whatever they want. But these people are not arguing that it's the right of the gun show to do it. They are either approving of these actions, or at the very least tacitly approving through there willingness to visit and patron said event.

    I often here the talking point that more guns makes you safer, how ever apparently that is not true if you also think that a building full of responsible gun enthusiasts would be a dangerous place if you allowed loaded weapons.

    They have even gone so far to try to get janitors and teachers and staff at SCHOOLS to start carrying loaded weapons. In order to protect the kids, lol. By their logic a gun show should be the safest place on earth, but apparently it's only the safest place on earth if you don't allow bullets in to the gun show, lol.

    I understand the very obvious difference between government intrusion and the rights of a private entity, and I am not arguing for government intrusion in this case. However I do think it's ridiculously funny that gun shows make you rope up your guns while the same people that visit them are thankful for these safety precautions, yet argue that more loaded guns make you safer.

    If you can find where I argued that the government should have a right to do something because of the actions of the gun show please point it out and I will retract my statement but I don't remember making such claim.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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