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Thread: The root cause of the 787 problems is?

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    Re: The root cause of the 787 problems is?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    That isn't true. Car makers use lead acid batteries because they are cheap, not because of safety. Even with the fire risk, the Dreamliner is still far far safer than driving a car.
    so the report is false? I thought the new electric cars didn't use lead/acid but some sort of Lithium one.

    Comparing air travel to road travel is bogus. Travel to the moon is safer than car travel, even with Apollo 1 and 13. Too low a bar and not a valid argument.

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    Re: The root cause of the 787 problems is?

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    so the report is false? I thought the new electric cars didn't use lead/acid but some sort of Lithium one.

    Comparing air travel to road travel is bogus. Travel to the moon is safer than car travel, even with Apollo 1 and 13. Too low a bar and not a valid argument.
    Gasoline cars all have a lead acid battery in them for starting the car. Hybrids and Electric cars do use a variety of lithium battery technologies, Tesla uses the same type as Boeing with the attendant fire risk.

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    Re: The root cause of the 787 problems is?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Gasoline cars all have a lead acid battery in them for starting the car. Hybrids and Electric cars do use a variety of lithium battery technologies, Tesla uses the same type as Boeing with the attendant fire risk.
    So to be clear, the auto industry does use lithium batteries, which is what the report stated and you claimed was false?

    To be clear again the INDUSTRY which was the group cited doesn't use the 'hot shot' batteries, the report claims do to overheating concerns, but you do point out ONE hybrid makers does?

    Now if you had to voice an opinion on safety, which is a bit more important to not have fires break out while in use-

    A vehicle that travels along the ground or one that operates above 30,000'?

    I understand the great competition in the airline industry and the need to go farther with more for less...did that make sense?... but Boeing jumped the shark and the FAA did stall a bit before finally acting.

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    Re: The root cause of the 787 problems is?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    We have had some insight (e.g. working for a vendor to Boeing) on the root causes of the 787 problems. Can't comment now, but maybe in the future. But, what do you think is the root cause is?
    I've been informed that I screwed up with my start of this threead. I did not sight a source of the breaking news, and I think that is a reason. I heard that the 787 was grounded in Japan on CNN, MSNBC, NPR and sone other broadcasts. Also I think it was in 'Time' and other places I've read. And we have also been expecting trouble with the 787 for some time.

    But the responces that the thread got were about the batteries; but, we don't see them as a root cause of the problems with the 787. So again I screwed up by not explaining what a root cause is when it comes to a design failure in a system. The root cause of design problems can be things like insufficient funding (staff, time, etc.), selecting vendors based on cost and short development time promises that are unreasonable.

    But gee, my post starting the thread is now has a hot pink background.

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    Re: The root cause of the 787 problems is?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    A classic case of technological overreach. Using electrical systems to replace hydraulics and pneumatics to save weight is a viable concept, but only if you have stable and high energy density batteries. Li CoO2 batteries have the fire risk, NIMH are too heavy and Li Po4 weren't ready in time. Commercial airliners demand safety and predictability over performance and that requires taking a more conservative technological approach.
    Comercial airliners don't demand anything, some people demand such things. Actually in the case of the 787 safety and predictability over performance may not have been the choice. Also schedual and cost could have been conciderations. So what do you think?

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    Re: The root cause of the 787 problems is?

    This kind of stuff happens with all airliners. There are always these kinds of teething troubles. A380 wings cracking, engines blowing out comes to mind. However, I have no idea how boeing got regulatory approval to install li-co batteries. There are enough concerns over those things in laptops.

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    Re: The root cause of the 787 problems is?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    We have had some insight (e.g. working for a vendor to Boeing) on the root causes of the 787 problems. Can't comment now, but maybe in the future. But, what do you think is the root cause is?
    Its normal for new aircraft to have problems. Boeing have just been unlucky that these issues have come right after each other on a few planes and have been rather dramatic. The big Airbus had also a number of problems, including cracked wings, but the difference here was that they did not have to do an emergency landing or evacuation of a plane full of passengers.

    While I dislike Boeing for their arrogance on the 787, it is not unusual for such problems regardless of who it is. But maybe Boeing should not have pushed the propaganda as much as they did when they launched the plane back in the day.. might have saved a lot of grief.
    PeteEU

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    Re: The root cause of the 787 problems is?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    We have had some insight (e.g. working for a vendor to Boeing) on the root causes of the 787 problems. Can't comment now, but maybe in the future. But, what do you think is the root cause is?
    According to an article that appeared in my local paper, they think the problem is that the batteries were overcharged.

    Here is a different article on the subject

    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/18086473.cms
    Last edited by Fisher; 01-19-13 at 11:37 AM. Reason: added links

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    Re: The root cause of the 787 problems is?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    We have had some insight (e.g. working for a vendor to Boeing) on the root causes of the 787 problems. Can't comment now, but maybe in the future. But, what do you think is the root cause is?
    I wouldn't have a clue. I know nothing about planes.

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    Re: The root cause of the 787 problems is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stewart View Post
    This kind of stuff happens with all airliners. There are always these kinds of teething troubles. A380 wings cracking, engines blowing out comes to mind. However, I have no idea how boeing got regulatory approval to install li-co batteries. There are enough concerns over those things in laptops.
    Agreed, the issues are temporary teething. The whole electrical system is vastly more complex and different than anything they've done before. It's going to take a while to work out the kinks.

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