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Thread: Obama unveils $500 million gun violence package

  1. #101
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    Re: Obama unveils $500 million gun violence package

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Racer View Post
    Do you have any reports that she purchased the AR before or after the ban?
    Found the answer to our question, looks like I was right - "The three guns carried by the gunman in the bloody Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting were all purchased by his mother since 2010, law enforcement sources told NBC News on Tuesday."

    Authorities establish timeline of gun purchases in Connecticut school shooting - Open Channel
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  2. #102
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    Re: Obama unveils $500 million gun violence package

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Racer View Post
    My point was not to argue the High cap mag but the tool used in the assault. I don't feel the tool used was any more lethal than a high cap pistol.
    The tool used had a HCM. That is the main target of the ban, HCMs and the guns that use them. That includes high cap pistols.

    "The proposed legislation will ban the sale, transfer, importation and manufacturing of over 100 specific firearms. Also banned will be certain named semiautomatic rifles, handguns and shotguns that can use a detachable magazine, as well as fixed magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds."

    Proposed Assault Weapon Ban Has Grandfather Clause: No Gun Seizure
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #103
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    Re: Obama unveils $500 million gun violence package

    Step 1. Conflate words until they mean what you want them to mean. "Violence" becomes "Gun Violence PROBLEM." Use children to inflict the most dire implications.
    Step 2. Arbitrarily pull a number out of your ass, put a dollar sign in front of it, and tell everyone this is the amount of money it takes to not-murder your kids.
    Step 3. Preemptively blame Republicans for not going along with it. Threaten them, and then remind everyone of the children again.
    Step 4. ???
    Step 5. PROFIT!!!
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

  4. #104
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    Re: Obama unveils $500 million gun violence package

    never mind.
    Last edited by Kal'Stang; 01-18-13 at 05:59 AM.
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    Re: Obama unveils $500 million gun violence package

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Check your math. She was 33 when the 1994 ban was put into place.
    Yep, yep, already admitted I made a math error above. But that is moot point since I discovered later she bought the guns since 2010.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #106
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    Re: Obama unveils $500 million gun violence package

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yep, yep, already admitted I made a math error above. But that is moot point since I discovered later she bought the guns in 2010.
    Yeah, saw both of those after I responded.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Obama unveils $500 million gun violence package

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "But the AR-15 style rifle the most popular rifle in America, according to gun dealers was also the weapon of choice for Adam Lanza, who the police said used one made by Bushmaster on Friday to kill 20 young children and six adults in an elementary school in Newtown, Conn., in a massacre that has horrified the nation.

    The increasing appearance of the rifle in rampage killings an AR-15 was used by James E. Holmes, who is accused of opening fire and killing 12 people in a movie theater in Colorado in July, police officials say, and by Jacob Roberts, who shot and killed two people and then took his own life in a shopping mall last week near Portland, Ore. has rekindled the debate about its availability and its appeal to killers bent on mass slaughter."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/us...anted=all&_r=0





    Given that Lanza's mother was 52 when her son killed her, she would have had to have been younger than 18 to have bought it before the 1994 ban. I think you would agree that is very unlikely.

    Shootings with pistols do not usually have the high numbers of kills that are usual by guns with high capacity magazines.
    Hows is that with 9mm clips with 16 in the clip and one in the chamber.Haven't been travelin down those Neighborhoods of Chicago much have ya? How fast do you think a mad-man takes to reload to the additional 16 totaling 32 rounds? Mins or seconds? Does it just matter the kills or do you think it matters with those that get shot by an individual that the Federal Government cannot do anything to stop that individual from committing an act of armed violence?

  8. #108
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    Re: Obama unveils $500 million gun violence package

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Mass Shooting Incidents in America (1984-2012)

    "Mass shootings are a unique feature of American life which have occurred consistently throughout history in every region of the country. The increased lethality of such incidents is made possible by the use of large capacity ammunition magazines (defined as more than 10-rounds) which enable a shooter to rapidly fire off as many as 100-rounds without having to reload the firearm. Designed for military use to kill greater numbers of people more effectively, large capacity ammunition magazines have facilitated some of the worst mass murders ever committed in the United States. As these incidents occur in every region of the country, restricting civilian access to these weapons is not a state specific problem. The federal government needs to take action to protect all Americans by reinstating the ban on large capacity ammunition magazines.

    This database provides an overview of significant mass shooting incidents in America (defined by the FBI as four or more victims killed), all of which involved large capacity ammunition magazines."

    Citizens Crime Commission of New York City - Mass Shooting Incidents in America (1984-2012)


    There is also an implication that we are talking about murder not accidental death or suicide. Half of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. are suicides; that percentage is considerably less for those under age 20.
    The Moderate Voice (Meme-Busting: Do 85% of the children who die from gun violence live in the US? | The Moderate Voice)

    How many deaths are we talking about?

    Unintentional Injury Deaths / Homicides / Suicides by Firearm (2010)
    Age 1-4 : 68 total; 25 firearm injury deaths; 43 homicides
    Age 5-9 : 69 total; 11 firearm injury deaths; 58 homicides
    Age 10-14 : 213 total; 26 firearm injury deaths; 107 homicides; 80 suicides
    Age 15-19 : 2,234 total; 72 firearm injury deaths; 1,554 homicides; 668 suicides

    There is also an implication that we are talking about murder not accidental death or suicide. Half of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. are suicides; that percentage is considerably less for those under age 20.
    The Moderate Voice (Meme-Busting: Do 85% of the children who die from gun violence live in the US? | The Moderate Voice)

    How many deaths are we talking about?

    Unintentional Injury Deaths / Homicides / Suicides by Firearm (2010)
    Age 1-4 : 68 total; 25 firearm injury deaths; 43 homicides
    Age 5-9 : 69 total; 11 firearm injury deaths; 58 homicides
    Age 10-14 : 213 total; 26 firearm injury deaths; 107 homicides; 80 suicides
    Age 15-19 : 2,234 total; 72 firearm injury deaths; 1,554 homicides; 668 suicides

    The Moderate Voice (Meme-Busting: Do 85% of the children who die from gun violence live in the US? | The Moderate Voice)

    Top two causes of death by unintentional injury (2010)
    Age 1-4 : 1,110 total; 436 drownings, 343 motor vehicle accidents
    Age 5-9 : 1,394 total; 343 motor vehicle accidents, 134 drownings
    Age 10-14 : 885 total; 452 motor vehicle accidents, 117 drownings
    Age 15-19 : 4,537 total; 2,895 motor vehicle accidents, 744 poisonings

    Top two causes of death by homicide (2010)
    Age 1-4 : 385 total; 163 unspecified; 84 other, classifiable
    Age 5-9 : 111 total; 58 firearm; 13 unspecified
    Age 10-14 : 150 total; 107 firearm; 16 cut/pierce
    Age 15-19 : 1,832 total; 1,554 firearm; 147 cut/pierce

    Top two causes of death by suicide (2010)
    Age 10-14 : 267 total; 168, suffocation; 60 firearm
    Age 15-19 : 1,659 total; 752, suffocation; 668 firearm

    The Moderate Voice (Meme-Busting: Do 85% of the children who die from gun violence live in the US? | The Moderate Voice)

    Read more at Meme-Busting: Do 85% of the children who die from gun violence live in the US? | The Moderate Voice


    Not to mention that crime has gone down and that is despite the FBI and their all-time high of Confiscation of weapons.

  9. #109
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    Re: Obama unveils $500 million gun violence package

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The difference between 5 deaths and the 27 at Newtown is the difference between pistols and assault weapons. They allow much higher kill totals. That's why they are used by the military....and mass murderers. Since 2000 it seems to be near 100% of them have picked the AR-15, I guess the "word" is out.
    Th report lists 5 or more deaths per shooting. Now you may be right that Newton had a higher kill total, but the last report I heard and saw was that the AR-15 was still in the car. So were their two AR-15's or did he not take it in the school? I am not trying to create conspiracies here, I really don't know.

  10. #110
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    Re: Obama unveils $500 million gun violence package

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Found the answer to our question, looks like I was right - "The three guns carried by the gunman in the bloody Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting were all purchased by his mother since 2010, law enforcement sources told NBC News on Tuesday."

    Authorities establish timeline of gun purchases in Connecticut school shooting - Open Channel
    Good find. I was wrong. And you are correct in saying that had the ban stayed in place he would not have been able to use that weapon. Given his state of mind I am certain he would have taken the shotgun that they found in the car and both handguns instead. We may have lost a few less but the massacre still would have taken place.

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