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Thread: Obama unveils $500 million gun violence package

  1. #91
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    Re: Obama unveils $500 million gun violence package

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "But the AR-15 style rifle — the most popular rifle in America, according to gun dealers — was also the weapon of choice for Adam Lanza, who the police said used one made by Bushmaster on Friday to kill 20 young children and six adults in an elementary school in Newtown, Conn., in a massacre that has horrified the nation.

    The increasing appearance of the rifle in rampage killings — an AR-15 was used by James E. Holmes, who is accused of opening fire and killing 12 people in a movie theater in Colorado in July, police officials say, and by Jacob Roberts, who shot and killed two people and then took his own life in a shopping mall last week near Portland, Ore. — has rekindled the debate about its availability and its appeal to killers bent on mass slaughter."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/us...anted=all&_r=0







    Given that Lanza's mother was 52 when her son killed her, she would have had to have been younger than 18 to have bought it before the 1994 ban. I think you would agree that is very unlikely.

    Depending on the month she was born she would have been about 33 years old in 1994. Well old enough to purchase the rifle. Since she was a collector it is also likely she was interested in that rifle during that time.

    Shootings with pistols do not usually have the high numbers of kills that are usual by guns with high capacity magazines.
    With 4 pistols he easily could have done just as much damage. Below is a Copy & Paste from an article I found from The Blaze.


    “We tracked 62 mass shootings wherein 5 or more people were either shot or killed from the early 1980’s to now; 41 times pistols were used, 12 times shotguns or some type of hunting-styled rifle was used, and 9 times semi-automatic rifles were used (14 percent),” Hunter told The Blaze.

    “Of the 62 incidents that we were able to track, 42 of the shooters had some kind of mental illness or mental illness history of some kind, 16 of the shooters had unknown or unclear history of mental illness, and only 4 of the shooters had no mental illness history.

  2. #92
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    Re: Obama unveils $500 million gun violence package

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "But the AR-15 style rifle — the most popular rifle in America, according to gun dealers — was also the weapon of choice for Adam Lanza, who the police said used one made by Bushmaster on Friday to kill 20 young children and six adults in an elementary school in Newtown, Conn., in a massacre that has horrified the nation.

    The increasing appearance of the rifle in rampage killings — an AR-15 was used by James E. Holmes, who is accused of opening fire and killing 12 people in a movie theater in Colorado in July, police officials say, and by Jacob Roberts, who shot and killed two people and then took his own life in a shopping mall last week near Portland, Ore. — has rekindled the debate about its availability and its appeal to killers bent on mass slaughter."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/us...anted=all&_r=0





    Given that Lanza's mother was 52 when her son killed her, she would have had to have been younger than 18 to have bought it before the 1994 ban. I think you would agree that is very unlikely.

    Shootings with pistols do not usually have the high numbers of kills that are usual by guns with high capacity magazines.

    In 1994 Lanza's mother would have been around 33 years old. Well old enough to purchase an AR-15. And being she was a Collector it's also likely she was interested in those rifles since they are the most popular.

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    Re: Obama unveils $500 million gun violence package

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    All kinds of hoops? Is that what you would consider it if the weapon you sold was used to kill you or yours or in the commission of a crime? My damned good reason is that the world does not stop at the Arizona border that weapon you sold to some one could be used to kill me or mine in NJ.
    Soooo....your rationale is that since you're scared of guns nobody should have one? That really doesn't quite live up to the standard of "imminent danger".

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    Re: Obama unveils $500 million gun violence package

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    by Soooo....your rationale is that since you're scared of guns nobody should have one? That really doesn't quite live up to the standard of "imminent danger".
    A weapon is an inanimate object it's not until it gets into the wrong hands that it becomes a danger to society, So no I am not afraid of guns I am concerned with how easy it is for a weapon to get into the hands of someone who should not have access to it or someone like you who apparently does not care enough to make sure if you sell a weapon you have done all that you can do to ensure that the person you are selling it to is not a criminal or a person who has mental issues.

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    Re: Obama unveils $500 million gun violence package

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Racer View Post
    With 4 pistols he easily could have done just as much damage. Below is a Copy & Paste from an article I found from The Blaze.


    “We tracked 62 mass shootings wherein 5 or more people were either shot or killed from the early 1980’s to now; 41 times pistols were used, 12 times shotguns or some type of hunting-styled rifle was used, and 9 times semi-automatic rifles were used (14 percent),” Hunter told The Blaze.

    “Of the 62 incidents that we were able to track, 42 of the shooters had some kind of mental illness or mental illness history of some kind, 16 of the shooters had unknown or unclear history of mental illness, and only 4 of the shooters had no mental illness history.

    Mass Shooting Incidents in America (1984-2012)

    "Mass shootings are a unique feature of American life which have occurred consistently throughout history in every region of the country. The increased lethality of such incidents is made possible by the use of large capacity ammunition magazines (defined as more than 10-rounds) which enable a shooter to rapidly fire off as many as 100-rounds without having to reload the firearm. Designed for military use to kill greater numbers of people more effectively, large capacity ammunition magazines have facilitated some of the worst mass murders ever committed in the United States. As these incidents occur in every region of the country, restricting civilian access to these weapons is not a state specific problem. The federal government needs to take action to protect all Americans by reinstating the ban on large capacity ammunition magazines.

    This database provides an overview of significant mass shooting incidents in America (defined by the FBI as four or more victims killed), all of which involved large capacity ammunition magazines."

    Citizens Crime Commission of New York City - Mass Shooting Incidents in America (1984-2012)
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama unveils $500 million gun violence package

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    A weapon is an inanimate object it's not until it gets into the wrong hands that it becomes a danger to society, So no I am not afraid of guns I am concerned with how easy it is for a weapon to get into the hands of someone who should not have access to it or someone like you who apparently does not care enough to make sure if you sell a weapon you have done all that you can do to ensure that the person you are selling it to is not a criminal or a person who has mental issues.
    I try to act with reasonable prudence because it's unreasonable to assume that everyone is a closet psychopath.

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    Re: Obama unveils $500 million gun violence package

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Racer View Post
    In 1994 Lanza's mother would have been around 33 years old. Well old enough to purchase an AR-15. And being she was a Collector it's also likely she was interested in those rifles since they are the most popular.
    I did make a math error, you are correct she would have been 33 at the start of the 1994 ban. I still think it is very unlikely she purchased when she was younger than 33. You have any evidence she did?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama unveils $500 million gun violence package

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Mass Shooting Incidents in America (1984-2012)

    "Mass shootings are a unique feature of American life which have occurred consistently throughout history in every region of the country. The increased lethality of such incidents is made possible by the use of large capacity ammunition magazines (defined as more than 10-rounds) which enable a shooter to rapidly fire off as many as 100-rounds without having to reload the firearm. Designed for military use to kill greater numbers of people more effectively, large capacity ammunition magazines have facilitated some of the worst mass murders ever committed in the United States. As these incidents occur in every region of the country, restricting civilian access to these weapons is not a state specific problem. The federal government needs to take action to protect all Americans by reinstating the ban on large capacity ammunition magazines.

    This database provides an overview of significant mass shooting incidents in America (defined by the FBI as four or more victims killed), all of which involved large capacity ammunition magazines."

    Citizens Crime Commission of New York City - Mass Shooting Incidents in America (1984-2012)
    My point was not to argue the High cap mag but the tool used in the assault. I don't feel the tool used was any more lethal than a high cap pistol.

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    Re: Obama unveils $500 million gun violence package

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I did make a math error, you are correct she would have been 33 at the start of the 1994 ban. I still think it is very unlikely she purchased when she was younger than 33. You have any evidence she did?
    I am not convinced she wouldn't have purchased it her age. I could be wrong and have no evidence she did. I asked earlier if anyone knew but have not received a response. It is likely she did purchase after the ban was lifted. I still do not believe it would have made a difference considering he went in with enough pistol firepower to do the same job. He had pretty much all the time he needed considering no one was there to stop him. The only reason he did stop was because he took his own life.

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    Re: Obama unveils $500 million gun violence package

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Racer View Post
    With 4 pistols he easily could have done just as much damage. Below is a Copy & Paste from an article I found from The Blaze.


    “We tracked 62 mass shootings wherein 5 or more people were either shot or killed from the early 1980’s to now; 41 times pistols were used, 12 times shotguns or some type of hunting-styled rifle was used, and 9 times semi-automatic rifles were used (14 percent),” Hunter told The Blaze.

    “Of the 62 incidents that we were able to track, 42 of the shooters had some kind of mental illness or mental illness history of some kind, 16 of the shooters had unknown or unclear history of mental illness, and only 4 of the shooters had no mental illness history.
    The difference between 5 deaths and the 27 at Newtown is the difference between pistols and assault weapons. They allow much higher kill totals. That's why they are used by the military....and mass murderers. Since 2000 it seems to be near 100% of them have picked the AR-15, I guess the "word" is out.

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