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Thread: Dozens held after Islamists attack Algerian gas field!!!![W:280]

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    Dozens held after Islamists attack Algerian gas field!!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    One doesn't have to be a Islamist sympathizer to question the wisdom of bombing a poor nation, especially a former colony. The Taliban sucked, but bombing Afghanistan made things worse for the people in that country.
    An odd comparison. Did the Taliban invite NATO in to fight Al Qaeda?

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    re: Dozens held after Islamists attack Algerian gas field!!!![W:280]

    Why all the concern? Our president told us that, 'Al-Qaeda is on the path to defeat...' back in October.

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    re: Dozens held after Islamists attack Algerian gas field!!!![W:280]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Exactly. But what can be done to discourage Islamic hatred against Israel and other western countries?
    1. Stop pretending like history never happened and acting as if "they only hate us for our freedom" and/or plan to conquer the world. We (USA and Europe) have given much of the Muslim world good reasons to hate us through our interference in internal affairs, violence and support of brutal dictators.


    2.Engage and influence in a friendly way, but criticize when it comes to human rights violations. Look at how much relations between the USA and China and Viet Nam improved when we stopped bombing them and/or undermining their government. The behavior of those countries also improved when they were no longer isolated from the rest of the world.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 01-18-13 at 04:32 PM.

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    re: Dozens held after Islamists attack Algerian gas field!!!![W:280]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Better to bomb rich nations?

    No, but we haven't done that lately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    What's the difference whether it was a former colony or not?
    Former colonies usually don't appreciate having their former oppressors coming back to interfere with their

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    How so? which bombing are you referring to?
    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    But in any case this thread concerns what's going on in Mali.
    The point is that bombing and occupation is not a good strategy, especially when dealing with guerrilla fighters. In fact, we haven't won a war that way since WWII.

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    Dozens held after Islamists attack Algerian gas field!!!!!!!!

    Let's get real. These places are third world. They are in states of perpetual violence. We aren't going to make anything better. The best bet for the U.S. is to protect our citizens only. No military involvement. Honestly. Who cares about these places? We can't help them all, and we really can't help one. All we can do is sit back and wait for the people to get sick of sharia Islam and let them kill of the lunatics. It worked in Europe around the Protestant reformation. Maybe we can just let them get sorted on their own, and maybe keep the Nuts out of our countries. Europe and China are the primary Mid East oil exporters. Let them deal with it.
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    re: Dozens held after Islamists attack Algerian gas field!!!![W:280]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    1. Stop pretending like history never happened and acting as if "they only hate us for our freedom" and/or plan to conquer the world. We (USA and Europe) have given much of the Muslim world good reasons to hate us through our interference in internal affairs, violence and support of brutal dictators.

    2.Engage and influence in a friendly way, but criticize when it comes to human rights violations. Look at how much relations between the USA and China and Viet Nam improved when we stopped bombing them and/or undermining their government. The behavior of those countries also improved when they were no longer isolated from the rest of the world.
    What did the other 76 or so countries do to deserve to be attacked and conquered by Islamic Jihadists?

    Rep. Ron Paul, for example, is notorious for discounting the role of Islam itself as the main reason for Islamic aggression.

    You seem to subscribe to the faulty notion that Jihadists can be successfully reasoned with. My impression is that this only occurs when the gains secured by the Muslims are carelessly valued by the Westerner.

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    re: Dozens held after Islamists attack Algerian gas field!!!![W:280]

    Quote Originally Posted by marsden View Post
    What did the other 76 or so countries do to deserve to be attacked and conquered by Islamic Jihadists?
    I didn't use the word deserve. I acknowledge that many of the civil wars/aggressions are motivated by an attempt to impose Islamist rule, but that is not the case with the attacks on the USA and Europe.


    Quote Originally Posted by marsden View Post
    Rep. Ron Paul, for example, is notorious for discounting the role of Islam itself as the main reason for Islamic aggression.
    I think he is correct on that matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by marsden View Post
    You seem to subscribe to the faulty notion that Jihadists can be successfully reasoned with. My impression is that this only occurs when the gains secured by the Muslims are carelessly valued by the Westerner.
    Reasoning with any fanatic is very difficult to impossible, but that is why it is important not to lump all Muslims together, there are moderate Muslims. Also, with time the fanatics will lose their grip on power as a new generation comes up and sees the disadvantages of their regime. I suspect Iran would be more moderate by now if the people weren't united by feeling constantly threatened by the west, which encourages more support for the current regime.

    Also, I don't oppose the use of force by nations facing violence from Jihadists, I oppose outside participation by the west.

    I don't understand your intent with the last sentence.

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    re: Dozens held after Islamists attack Algerian gas field!!!![W:280]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Turkey has a population that is mostly Muslim yet most of its citizens support having a secular government. This is also true in several other Muslim majority nations.
    From my understanding Turkey is largely an outlier when considering attitudes in the islamic world

    <<<Muslims in Nigeria and in nearly all of the predominantly Muslim countries surveyed overwhelmingly welcome Islamic influence over their countriesí politics.

    In Indonesia, about nine-in-ten Muslims (91%) either say that their religion plays a large role in politics and that this is a good thing or that Islam plays a small role and that this is a bad thing. Similarly, at least three-quarters of Muslims in Egypt (85%), Nigeria (82%) and Jordan (76%) consider Islamic influence over political life to be a positive thing for their country, as do 69% of Muslims in Pakistan and 58% in Lebanon.

    Only in Turkey are opinions about the role of Islam in political life more mixed. About four-in-ten (38%) Turkish Muslims say Islam plays a large role and embrace its influence in their countryís politics or say it is bad that Islam plays only a small role; about three-in-ten (31%) say Islamís influence is negative.>>>

    Muslim Publics Divided on Hamas and Hezbollah | Pew Global Attitudes Project

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    re: Dozens held after Islamists attack Algerian gas field!!!![W:280]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray410 View Post
    What is the difference between an Islamist and a Muslim?

    Why not just come out and say that the terrorist attacks around the world are committed by Muslims?

    Everyone knows the truth about the "religion of peace" anyway.
    Because you know doesn't mean you are allowed to say!
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    re: Dozens held after Islamists attack Algerian gas field!!!![W:280]

    Some of these hostages have now been killed.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

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