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Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to cla

Re: Rhake porn past, must not return to cla

Sigh? Thats it? That was the other main reason that people wanted her gone...including the judges. What he said is valid. Plenty of children have teachers that they don't respect. Yet those teachers still get the job done. How? If not having any respect from her students is enough to get this teacher fired then why is it that those other teachers don't get fired?

look, if you think student will have the same response to a teacher they don't like, and a pornstar teacher, I honestly don't know what to tell you. But this line of thinking honestly boggles my mind
 
Re: Rhake porn past, must not return to cla

I never made this argument. My argument concerned the disruption to class due to the scandalous nature of the thing and the propensity of 14 year old children to act up ...



sigh...

Yep, watching porn outside of class will cause them to disrupt class. And if they disrupt class, we should fire the teacher instead of disciplining them. Smart.

sorry, thought this was a response to a different post: Note I do not claim that viewing porn (what is with this need to try and keep casting my arguments as against porn?) will prevent you from getting an education, disrepect women, or cause your life to crumble. What I argued is that the ability to see their teacher, at some point, getting gang banged and cum bathed for money will make it impossible for her to establish authority and respect in the classroom.

Note, this has nothing to do with merely viewing porn, but concerns her direct activity in making commercial porn
And I've stated that I still managed to learn from teachers that I had absolutely no respect for. And no, it's not impossible to respect someone who's been in porn.


1) why would they need to watch porn in school? 2) schools are controlled chaos. Thinking that you will be able to control the response to a teacher being a porn star, and that it would quickly subside goes against the entirety of my experience growing up 3) I imagine the level of harassment, horseplay, etc between a teacher that no one likes, and the "porn teacher" would be quite different in degree
1) they don't, because they can't, so her porn videos can't disrupt class
2) It doesn't matter what the kids giggle about in the hallways and after school, what matters is what goes on in the classroom. If a child is disrupting class by disrespecting a teacher, for any reason, that child is removed. At least that was my experience growing up.
3) Harassment is illegal, and punishment is quick to be handed out. I once got suspended for not standing for the texas pledge. I can guarantee you if you suspend a few kids for teasing the teacher, the rest of them will keep their mouths shut on the subject.

look, if you think student will have the same response to a teacher they don't like, and a pornstar teacher, I honestly don't know what to tell you. But this line of thinking honestly boggles my mind
The response will be different, but the outcome can be controlled with disciplinary action, just like it is for EVERYTHING else. You can't do **** in school anymore without getting slapped with a suspension. Why you think harassing a teacher would be any different honestly boggles my mind.
 
Re: Rhake porn past, must not return to cla

look, if you think student will have the same response to a teacher they don't like, and a pornstar teacher, I honestly don't know what to tell you. But this line of thinking honestly boggles my mind

So you can't actually answer the question. Just like you couldn't answer the question about distractions. I've got a feeling that the only reason that you don't want the teacher to teach is because she did porn. All other excuses like "she will have no respect" or "it will be a disruption" are just smoke screens. You just simply don't like the fact that she did porn.
 
Re: Rhake porn past, must not return to cla

So you can't actually answer the question. Just like you couldn't answer the question about distractions. I've got a feeling that the only reason that you don't want the teacher to teach is because she did porn. All other excuses like "she will have no respect" or "it will be a disruption" are just smoke screens. You just simply don't like the fact that she did porn.

Not one of these "traditional america" whackos will admit the plain and honest truth: The school leadership didn't have the balls to stand up for what was right. They were going to get flak from the "traditional 'merica, this is a christian country, jesus doesn't approve" parents, so they tried to save their own asses by just firing her.

Discrimination is discrimination.

I'm sure most of them would want gay teachers fired too, but won't say it out loud because it's not politically correct.
 
Re: Rhake porn past, must not return to cla

Yep, watching porn outside of class will cause them to disrupt class. And if they disrupt class, we should fire the teacher instead of disciplining them. Smart.

Again, I never said that. I said specifically being able to view their teacher in porn will undermine her ability to establish authority and respect in the classroom. Secondly, while people disrupting a class under such circumstances, I wager it would be wide spread (see the various bullying cases to make the news and largely addressable.


And I've stated that I still managed to learn from teachers that I had absolutely no respect for. And no, it's not impossible to respect someone who's been in porn.

regular teachers you did not like, that represents a large degree of difference to the porn teacher.

-never said it was impossible to respect people who were in porn, just unlikely, especially when concerning a bunch of 14 year olds



1) they don't, because they can't, so her porn videos can't disrupt class

I just explained this
2) It doesn't matter what the kids giggle about in the hallways and after school, what matters is what goes on in the classroom. If a child is disrupting class by disrespecting a teacher, for any reason, that child is removed. At least that was my experience growing up.

were you home schooled? Teachers get overwhelmed by problematic classes all the time

3) Harassment is illegal, and punishment is quick to be handed out. I once got suspended for not standing for the texas pledge. I can guarantee you if you suspend a few kids for teasing the teacher, the rest of them will keep their mouths shut on the subject.

we covered harassment just the other day and how the expectations in a school are not the same as a professional work environment. If you think they would be able to catch and punish all incidents of such, especially when in all likelihood it would be pervasive and wide spread, then I think you are extremely naive


The response will be different, but the outcome can be controlled with disciplinary action, just like it is for EVERYTHING else. You can't do **** in school anymore without getting slapped with a suspension. Why you think harassing a teacher would be any different honestly boggles my mind.

because it assumes that all such behavior would be caught and disciplined, and not the giant, year long, pile on that it most likely would be.
 
Re: Rhake porn past, must not return to cla

So you can't actually answer the question. Just like you couldn't answer the question about distractions. I've got a feeling that the only reason that you don't want the teacher to teach is because she did porn. All other excuses like "she will have no respect" or "it will be a disruption" are just smoke screens. You just simply don't like the fact that she did porn.

Yes, all those answers I have already posted multiple times, in response to the same questions (one just posted a page back) don't exist and my only beef here is that I don't like porn, even though I have no discernible issue with it and even watch it on occasion

you got me, Sherlock ...
 
Re: Rhake porn past, must not return to cla

More dumbass fearmongering from the Jayzus crowd. Really, isn't that expected by now?
 
Re: Rhake porn past, must not return to cla

Again, I never said that. I said specifically being able to view their teacher in porn will undermine her ability to establish authority and respect in the classroom. Secondly, while people disrupting a class under such circumstances, I wager it would be wide spread (see the various bullying cases to make the news and largely addressable.
So all the evidence you have that supports your position is speculation about how these kids will act? And that's why you're debating so passionately that this person should've been fired?

Do you think we should remove the kids being bullied because they're disrupting class by being bullied? You don't think we should discipline the bullies instead?



regular teachers you did not like, that represents a large degree of difference to the porn teacher.

-never said it was impossible to respect people who were in porn, just unlikely, especially when concerning a bunch of 14 year olds
I didn't like them either, but the words I specifically used were I DID NOT RESPECT THEM. Don't try to reform my words to fit yours.




I just explained this
If by explaining you mean by saying "it will". Still not seeing any evidence or case studies to back up your claims.

were you home schooled? Teachers get overwhelmed by problematic classes all the time
Yes, I got suspended from home school for not standing for the texas pledge. Jesus, I didn't think it was possible but your responses are getting worse.


we covered harassment just the other day and how the expectations in a school are not the same as a professional work environment. If you think they would be able to catch and punish all incidents of such, especially when in all likelihood it would be pervasive and wide spread, then I think you are extremely naive
because it assumes that all such behavior would be caught and disciplined, and not the giant, year long, pile on that it most likely would be.
Then I guess they shouldn't even try. We'll remove anyone who is bullied. If a gay teacher is harassed for being gay, we should fire his ass right? I mean, it's not like we can discipline the kids. It's his choice to be gay, and most of the parents find that offensive, so **** him right?
 
Re: Rhake porn past, must not return to cla

Yes, all those answers I have already posted multiple times, in response to the same questions (one just posted a page back) don't exist and my only beef here is that I don't like porn, even though I have no discernible issue with it and even watch it on occasion

you got me, Sherlock ...

No you didn't answer. All that you did was say "if you think that it won't be a disruption then I don't know what to tell you" or "its a strawman". Those are not answers to those questions. Those are avoiding answers to those questions.
 
Re: Rhake porn past, must not return to cla

Not one of these "traditional america" whackos will admit the plain and honest truth: The school leadership didn't have the balls to stand up for what was right. They were going to get flak from the "traditional 'merica, this is a christian country, jesus doesn't approve" parents, so they tried to save their own asses by just firing her.

Discrimination is discrimination.

I'm sure most of them would want gay teachers fired too, but won't say it out loud because it's not politically correct.

Dude, I spent most of the 90's organizing and promoting illegal raves; spent nearly that amount of time hitching, back packing, and cycling through the US, asia, and europe, and I'm an atheist. So I am about as far removed from "traditional" american values as you can get, and am still baffled by this need to reduce every argument here into some anti-porn rant.

PS no, discriminating against a financial adviser who can't make money isn't the same as discriminating against one for being black.
 
Re: Rhake porn past, must not return to cla

More dumbass fearmongering from the Jayzus crowd. Really, isn't that expected by now?

It's the typical GOP "Jesus hates fags" type crowd. By having a teacher who was a porn star, gay, or a muslim, it's going to turn the kids into all of those things.
 
Re: Rhake porn past, must not return to cla

It's the typical GOP "Jesus hates fags" type crowd. By having a teacher who was a porn star, gay, or a muslim, it's going to turn the kids into all of those things.

wow, man, talk about uncalled for, baseless, and pointlessly nasty personal attacks
 
Re: Rhake porn past, must not return to cla

wow, man, talk about uncalled for, baseless, and pointlessly nasty personal attacks

Did he call you out in particular for being a part of the "Jesus hates fags" crowd? I think you're a particularly sad case, being a self-professed atheist who buys into the Movement Conservative social nonsense, but I'm pretty sure you're explicitly disqualified from being grouped in under his rubric.
 
Re: Rhake porn past, must not return to cla

Did he call you out in particular for being a part of the "Jesus hates fags" crowd? I think you're a particularly sad case, being a self-professed atheist who buys into the Movement Conservative social nonsense, but I'm pretty sure you're explicitly disqualified from being grouped in under his rubric.

Yes, he has accused me of such personally here numerous times in this thread. Secondly, I really don't care what your personal opinion is of me, and am really baffled why you even felt the need to express it like I would. Third, my arguments have nothing to do with a dislike of porn, in anyway.


Maybe read first then e-rage after
 
Re: Rhake porn past, must not return to cla

wow, man, talk about uncalled for, baseless, and pointlessly nasty personal attacks

Was I talking about you? You're not the only person in this thread and the world doesn't revolve around you. If you say you're an atheist then your discriminatory practices must stem from some other psychological issue.
 
Re: Rhake porn past, must not return to cla

Was I talking about you? You're not the only person in this thread and the world doesn't revolve around you. If you say you're an atheist then your discriminatory practices must stem from some other psychological issue.


what is the need with some of you guys to turn this personal?
 
Re: Rhake porn past, must not return to cla

what is the need with some of you guys to turn this personal?

Sorry, I just hate discrimination. I find it vile and disgusting. I also find it disgusting that you stand up for the harassers instead of the people being harassed.

So tell me, based on your entire argument of "kids will be kids" and "We should fire those who are harassed". How is your view any different than if a gay or muslim teacher were harassed by their students? Would you fire them? I mean hell, the kids and the parents don't respect them, I guess that means they should be gone, right?
 
Re: Rhake porn past, must not return to cla

Sorry, I just hate discrimination. I find it vile and disgusting. I also find it disgusting that you stand up for the harassers instead of the people being harassed.

1) discrimination isn't wrong in all cases: one would clearly discriminate against child molesters when looking for a nanny

2) attacking people doesn't nothing to establish your view that there is some actionable form of discrimination here. I am arguing it's reasonable because her past actions, and their public nature, would make it impossible for her to teach, and I listed the reasons why numerous times

So tell me, based on your entire argument of "kids will be kids" and "We should fire those who are harassed". How is your view any different than if a gay or muslim teacher were harassed by their students? Would you fire them? I mean hell, the kids and the parents don't respect them, I guess that means they should be gone, right?

how is being gay or muslim comparable to doing commercial porn? The nature of the thing causing the controversy is completely different and would likely garner a completely different response from kids.


Again, the apt comparison here is a controversial tattoo on the face.
 
Re: Rhake porn past, must not return to cla

1) discrimination isn't wrong in all cases: one would clearly discriminate against child molesters when looking for a nanny

2) attacking people doesn't nothing to establish your view that there is some actionable form of discrimination here. I am arguing it's reasonable because her past actions, and their public nature, would make it impossible for her to teach, and I listed the reasons why numerous times
1) Child molesters are criminals, so that was a ridiculous comparison. She has committed no crime.
2) Yes, you're arguing, using definite words like 'impossible', yet have provided nothing more than speculation about the actions of teenagers, with zero evidence or case studies.

how is being gay or muslim comparable to doing commercial porn? The nature of the thing causing the controversy is completely different and would likely garner a completely different response from kids.
Your arguments have been entirely based on how the kids will harass the teacher. So how would the school disctrict stop harassment of a gay or muslim teacher? How is that any different at all? I would argue that for a long time, and possibly even today, being gay is even more controversial. Perhaps you haven't seen the massive battle over gay rights that has been going on.

Being a christian, in porn, gay, a muslim, are all the same. They are all people who are legally exercising their individual liberties. If a few of us decided to make our own religion, Pornology, where our god requires us to star in porn at some point during our lives, it then becomes our religion. At that point would you stop discriminating?
 
Re: Rhake porn past, must not return to cla

So all the evidence you have that supports your position is speculation about how these kids will act? And that's why you're debating so passionately that this person should've been fired?

Yes, speculation based on my extensive time in similar institutions. I use similar to predict that the sun will rise tomorrow, as well

Do you think we should remove the kids being bullied because they're disrupting class by being bullied? You don't think we should discipline the bullies instead?

you have this unflinching need to invent arguments and try to vilify and attack your opponent over them. To say it is tedious would be an understatement. But no, again, what I am saying is the bullying would be widespread and pervasive. Secondly, as I already said, the teacher doesn't have some legal right to be a teacher, so I fail to see why the school should need to go to great lengths to deal with the skeletons in her past

None of that asserts that we shouldn't punish bullies




I didn't like them either, but the words I specifically used were I DID NOT RESPECT THEM. Don't try to reform my words to fit yours.

how that makes any relevant difference here is beyond me, but ok ...





If by explaining you mean by saying "it will". Still not seeing any evidence or case studies to back up your claims.

I'm speaking from experience, which is a valid form of evidence.


Yes, I got suspended from home school for not standing for the texas pledge. Jesus, I didn't think it was possible but your responses are getting worse.

you made yourself a target by being the odd man out. See flash mobs for an extreme example of numbers overwhelming normal controls



Then I guess they shouldn't even try. We'll remove anyone who is bullied. If a gay teacher is harassed for being gay, we should fire his ass right? I mean, it's not like we can discipline the kids. It's his choice to be gay, and most of the parents find that offensive, so **** him right?

gay=/= making commercial porn
 
Re: Rhake porn past, must not return to cla

1) Child molesters are criminals, so that was a ridiculous comparison. She has committed no crime.

it wasn't a comparison, it was a demonstration to show that discrimination isn't automatically bad like you claimed


2) Yes, you're arguing, using definite words like 'impossible', yet have provided nothing more than speculation about the actions of teenagers, with zero evidence or case studies.

I'm not sure what your complaint is and doubt that we have access to much research on adolescent responses to teachers being porn stars. hence me citing my personal experience over an extended length of time






Your arguments have been entirely based on how the kids will harass the teacher. So how would the school disctrict stop harassment of a gay or muslim teacher? How is that any different at all? I would argue that for a long time, and possibly even today, being gay is even more controversial. Perhaps you haven't seen the massive battle over gay rights that has been going on.

I'm not seeing how doing commercial porn, that is distributed to the public, is comparable to the sexual orientation someone expresses behind closed doors. the two are completely different in nature and your argument is based on the faulty assumption that all forms of discrimination are the same

Being a christian, in porn, gay, a muslim, are all the same.

no, they really are not

They are all people who are legally exercising their individual liberties. If a few of us decided to make our own religion, Pornology, where our god requires us to star in porn at some point during our lives, it then becomes our religion. At that point would you stop discriminating?

Again, some guy can exercise his right to free speech and talk about how all the black babies need to be shipped to Antarctica. And even though he might maintain the proper demeanor in class, his public activity would still undermine his ability to teach (this exact case played out not too long ago)
 
Re: Rhake porn past, must not return to cla

it wasn't a comparison, it was a demonstration to show that discrimination isn't automatically bad like you claimed




I'm not sure what your complaint is and doubt that we have access to much research on adolescent responses to teachers being porn stars. hence me citing my personal experience over an extended length of time








I'm not seeing how doing commercial porn, that is distributed to the public, is comparable to the sexual orientation someone expresses behind closed doors. the two are completely different in nature and your argument is based on the faulty assumption that all forms of discrimination are the same



no, they really are not



Again, some guy can exercise his right to free speech and talk about how all the black babies need to be shipped to Antarctica. And even though he might maintain the proper demeanor in class, his public activity would still undermine his ability to teach (this exact case played out not too long ago)

Good, then you've ignored the question yet again. The entirety of your argument can be summed up by "The learning environment will be destroyed because kids will make fun of the teacher and have no respect for her, and there's nothing we can do about it." Yet I presented you with a scenario where the same thing might come up, and you can't explain to me how it would be HANDLED differently. Forget for a second that you don't see gay, muslim, porn star, or whatever the same. The effects on the CLASS would be the same as you described.

If it's really impossible to stop these things, then we should fire any gay or muslim teacher who is made fun of or not respected.

I'll even bold it for you: How would this situation be handled if the teacher were gay or muslim, and the kids made fun of the teacher and didn't respect him.
 
Re: Rhake porn past, must not return to cla

Good, then you've ignored the question yet again.

what question did I ignore?

The entirety of your argument can be summed up by "The learning environment will be destroyed because kids will make fun of the teacher and have no respect for her, and there's nothing we can do about it."

Nope, I said that it would take large amounts of effort and resources to deal with it (see my comments about suspending the entire 8th grade)

Yet I presented you with a scenario where the same thing might come up, and you can't explain to me how it would be HANDLED differently.

sure I did, I pointed to the things causing the controversy being different. It's like asking what is the difference between political speech and just some guy yelling at random people on the street corner

Forget for a second that you don't see gay, muslim, porn star, or whatever the same. The effects on the CLASS would be the same as you described.
you're making another straw man argument. My argument was that it would be widespread and pervasive, which would require many resources to address. I don't think those resources should be leveraged to coddle the guy that got an embarrassing tattoo on his face, or the pornstar turned teacher.

If it's really impossible to stop these things, then we should fire any gay or muslim teacher who is made fun of or not respected.

I'll even bold it for you: How would this situation be handled if the teacher were gay or muslim, and the kids made fun of the teacher and didn't respect him.

1) difficult is not the same as impossible. Unless students had access to footage of the gay teacher and muslim getting plowed I doubt the responce from students, teachers, and parents would be the same. But if it was, the nature of the thing causing the controversy is different
 
Re: Rhake porn past, must not return to cla

what question did I ignore?



Nope, I said that it would take large amounts of effort and resources to deal with it (see my comments about suspending the entire 8th grade)



sure I did, I pointed to the things causing the controversy being different. It's like asking what is the difference between political speech and just some guy yelling at random people on the street corner

Forget for a second that you don't see gay, muslim, porn star, or whatever the same. The effects on the CLASS would be the same as you described.

you're making another straw man argument. My argument was that it would be widespread and pervasive, which would require many resources to address. I don't think those resources should be leveraged to coddle the guy that got an embarrassing tattoo on his face, or the pornstar turned teacher.



1) difficult is not the same as impossible. Unless students had access to footage of the gay teacher and muslim getting plowed I doubt the responce from students, teachers, and parents would be the same. But if it was, the nature of the thing causing the controversy is different

Ok, so you have no solution for what to do if the kids were harassing the teacher for being gay or muslim. You've refused again to answer what would be done if the kids are harassing a teacher.

I had a solution for both: discipline the kids and teach them that we live in a tolerant society.

I can see we're not going to get any farther on this. I will continue to believe that discrimination is wrong, and you will continue to make up arguments, yet fail to back them up.

So I guess we're done here.
 
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