Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to cla

Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

The decision is disgraceful and wrong and based on bigotry. She did nothing illegal or even immoral. It was also first amendment protected expression. The only 'problem' is that ignorant and bigoted people are prejudiced and/or judgmental against her. The kid's reaction should have been an opportunity for an educational discussion on differing standards of sexuality morality. The kids would get over the titillation soon enough, and they should be required to treat her with respect. Instead the lesson is that any woman with an unconventional sexual past should be shunned by society-which is not a viewpoint that everybody holds.

This situation is no different than if she was a member of an unpopular religious group, except that she has no legal protection. Imagine if (for example) she was from Africa and had tribal scars on her face. The kids would laugh at first and many parents would hate her for not being part of the mainstream religion. But the kids will get over it and the opinions of the bigoted parents would probably be ignored in this day and age in most places in the USA. (but not in the recent past)

If legal activities can be used against potential employees, especially government employees, then there should be a publicly available list of activities that are prohibited so a young person can plan their life for their potential career.

With the internet maintaining an archive of people's past, and constantly changing standards of acceptable behavior (ie. the popularity of piercings and tattoos) society should reconsider whether it is really beneficial to throw away the skills of people with unpopular life choices in their past.

We already have decided that only a very narrow segment of society can be a prominent participant in politics and many institutions (i.e religious people with excellent grades in school who went to a prestigious college, hold conventional opinions and avoided getting caught participating in any alternative lifestyle activities) and I think that is the part of the reason these institutions are so often dysfunctional, abnormal people are making decisions for the rest of us.

Re: 't shake porn past, must not return to cla

Dr. Chuckles said:

Lol, yes, when have children ever pushed an issue that negatively affected their piers?

Jesus christ, are some of you people hilarious

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Of course kids push their peers. Thats part of childhood. Doesn't mean that you let them get away with it. If you do then you're a real crappy parent.

Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

MaggieD said:

If you look at this situation closer, you'll understand that this woman didn't disclose this employment history on her job application. I think, personally, that's the grounds they're using to fire her. And, honestly, they most likely would have chosen another candidate had they known.

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Porn work is usually free lance contract work, not a job. Most people don't list every temp job on job applications.

Re: Juake porn past, must not return to cla

Dr. Chuckles said:

Are you hopelessly confused sweat pea? My post dealt with the general attitudes of kids at that age, not my behavior

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Either way, my statement applies to others just as much as you. Any kid that is disrespectful to their peers should be punished. I know for a fact that when ever I was disrespectful (and what kid isn't at one point in their lives?) I got my ass whooped. Taught me real quick to mind my manners.

Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

MaggieD said:

"Legal"? I don't know. But if a company/school asks for your previous employment history, they are well within their rights to find that, if you omitted some, you've lied on your application. A resume? That's something else again. The application? Well, it doesn't say: "List all relevant employment history," it says, "List your employment history."

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Omission is not a lie. I doubt that anyone listed every temp job they ever had, most people couldn't even remember all of it.

Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

Jack Fabulous said:

Sure I can tell you the difference.

The difference is that one is real and the other is imagined.

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But that would have no impact on the way others treat her, which is the sole basis for the judge's decision.

Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

Dragonfly said:

With regards to woman A - the school can go right to the parents and ask why the hell their children are watching porn and/or bringing it into school.

With regards to woman B - She actually did porn - then lied about it on her application and hid any such information from her employers.

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Not true. Few people over a certain age list every job that they ever had, especially temp work. Older people usually only list their most recent jobs to avoid age discrimination before the interview.

Re: ake porn past, must not return to cla

Dr. Chuckles said:

Yes, even in the imagination of students. In fact , if there wasn't a difference and preference for actual real images, there would be no porn industry

PS I really couldn't careless about her making porn. I'm just not going to adopt the silly idea that there isn't a difference between having to imagine someone naked and seeing them railed on film

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I had a hot teacher in high school and I can't imagine being any more distracted than I was watching her instead of listening to her. Good looking people should also be prohibited from teaching unless they wear a burka.

Re: Ren't shake porn past, must not return to cla

rathi said:

Decisions regarding employment should be based on job performance, not subjective opinions.

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So I can't fire you because its my business and I no longer want you to be part of it? Seems like a damn good reason to me. :shrug:

Not like that applies here, but they wanted her gone, so why can't they just fire her? What is so wrong about that? I don't get this entire thing. They hired the chick, they found something they didn't like about her and so they fired her? Seems legit.

Re: Judn past, must not return to cla

Dr. Chuckles said:

I didn't assume it was a porno studio. What I assumed was that she would be the "porn teacher" and be totally disrespected by the kids she would be trying to educate.

But I'm just going off my experiance as a kid.

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Perhaps responsible adults should teach kids to treat everyone with respect. I'm glad that was what I was taught.

Re: Judn past, must not return to cla

Hard Truth said:

Perhaps responsible adults should teach kids to treat everyone with respect. I'm glad that was what I was taught.

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again, you can complain about what should be, but that doesn't amounting to changing things

Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

Hard Truth said:

The decision is disgraceful and wrong and based on bigotry. She did nothing illegal or even immoral.

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Stopped you right there because you are wrong on the facts. She lied several times about the matter and those false resumes will get you every time. It is reported that she also lied under oath. All illegal. Had she been forthcoming about her past when applying for the job, and gotten it, then she would have a legitimate defense. As it stands, just on the omissions/lies on her application and subsequent contracts alone she is sunk.

Btw, where there are moral clauses, at least a partial list of activities that will trigger them ARE listed. She knew she couldn't get the job if she told the truth. She got caught.

Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

Ray410 said:

Pornography is not accepted as a mainstream occupation within the context of the moral framework of the United States. Definitely not within the range of information that parents want their children to be taught to accept as an interim occupation.

Certainly this fact is an outrage to certain liberal client groups who's primary interest is the destruction of all moral codes or Christian morality guidelines, but the fact remains that's how it is. Porn, like other things such as masturbation or sexual intercourse, remains an activity that is properly confined to the home.

Recall the Pee Wee Herman incident and the subsequent endless attempts by the MSM to rehabilitate his career after his own indiscretion. Herman made movies, etc, that appealed to children. Americans said NO, we don't want him around our children anymore.

Liberals refuse to accept anyone saying NO to them, but that is the morality of America, thank God for that. This teacher was property discharged from the school, but remains free to pursue other activities not involving children or offensive to the public morals of the majority. She could run for public office.

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At last, an honest post from someone who supports her firing. The whole basis of the firing is a religion-based hypocritical morality.

Re: Juake porn past, must not return to cla

Kal'Stang said:

Either way, my statement applies to others just as much as you. Any kid that is disrespectful to their peers should be punished. I know for a fact that when ever I was disrespectful (and what kid isn't at one point in their lives?) I got my ass whooped. Taught me real quick to mind my manners.

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who has endorsed children being disrespectful to their piers or adults? What people are doing is pointing out that the mentality of 14 is conductive to such behavior, and that her past career choices will act like a lightening rod fr poor behavior, on top of what already goes on.

Why would any employer chose to put themselves under such additional strain when there are plenty of other teachers out there

Re: 't shake porn past, must not return to cla

Kal'Stang said:

Of course kids push their peers. Thats part of childhood. Doesn't mean that you let them get away with it. If you do then you're a real crappy parent.

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No one is endorsing them "getting away with it", but pointing out in a chaotic school atmosphere many will

Re: ake porn past, must not return to cla

Hard Truth said:

I had a hot teacher in high school and I can't imagine being any more distracted than I was watching her instead of listening to her. Good looking people should also be prohibited from teaching unless they wear a burka.

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how does this logically follow from anything I wrote?

Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

Hard Truth said:

At last, an honest post from someone who supports her firing. The whole basis of the firing is a religion-based hypocritical morality.

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it's hilarious watching you guys try to make this about religion and morality: I'm an atheist, have absolutely no issue with porn, and even know a few porn stars. Who I doubt would even describe their profession as "respectable".

Honestly, it is beyond me how people can just dismiss or ignore the clear implications this would have in the classroom

Re: Ren't shake porn past, must not return to cla

Dr. Chuckles said:

lol, are you kidding me? My seventh grade english teacher was harassed about his comb over until he retired. As people have pointed out, it was part of campus lore that kids were introduced to every year. And kids being assholes at that age, and stuck in a classroom, never let up about it.




nothing I wrote can be construed as having a negative attitude towards porn. The issue that I have outlined clearly concerns how kids will react to it and how they will tease, disrespect, and dismiss her.

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Teachers with comb-overs should be fired also. And gays, Muslims, Scientologists, Mormons, Atheists, they can all create a distraction.

Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

Fiddytree said:

This is more as a result of societal pressures than much else, but they are what they are. A person with that past has to realize three similar things:

1) Your colleagues will not respect you
2) Your community, particularly parents, will not respect or trust you and think you will do harm
3) Your students will not respect traditional authoritative boundaries, thus breaking both the student-teacher relationship and academic excellence.

As such, your placement in the classroom will likely not be constructive, not worth the effort, not worth the state's funds, and will be an unnecessary distraction from the education of the students.

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Same with guys with comb-overs, gays, Muslims, etc.

Re: Ren't shake porn past, must not return to cla

Hard Truth said:

Teachers with comb-overs should be fired also. And gays, Muslims, Scientologists, Mormons, Atheists, they can all create a distraction.

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Every one of them who lied on their resumes, lied to get the job and keep it, are equally on the hook and may be fired upon discovery.

Btw, IF there is a morals clause in the contract, she knew that BEFORE she signed on the dotted line. Plenty of time before and after signing to investigate the matter with her union rep. And where was the union in this? The union does not defend those who lie to get the job, at least they haven't in my experience (which admittedly is a couple decades old).

Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

Dragonfly said:

Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to classroom - Yahoo! News



Thoughts?

Would you fire her?

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I agree with most of what Tess wrote. I don't know if I would fire her, but I think her reputation among her students is ruined and that they would not take her seriously as their teacher (at least some wouldn't anyway). I would hate to have to fire her though.

Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

ChrisL said:

I agree with most of what Tess wrote. I don't know if I would fire her, but I think her reputation among her students is ruined and that they would not take her seriously as their teacher (at least some wouldn't anyway). I would hate to have to fire her though.

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Again, she lied to get the job. There are plenty of very good teachers waiting in the wings for the opportunity to teach. Folks that will not lie to get the job. Why not let them have a crack at it?

Re: Ren't shake porn past, must not return to cla

Hard Truth said:

Teachers with comb-overs should be fired also. And gays, Muslims, Scientologists, Mormons, Atheists, they can all create a distraction.

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Yes, let us act as if the severity of the response from her students would be the same as the old guy with a ****ty hair cut. Not that I haven't already addressed this a half dozen times

Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

clownboy said:

Again, she lied to get the job. There are plenty of very good teachers waiting in the wings for the opportunity to teach. Folks that will not lie to get the job. Why not let them have a crack at it?

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Well I didn't know that. If that's the case, that would be the reason for ME firing her, because she lied on her resume. And, did she really lie, or did she just leave it out?

Re: Juake porn past, must not return to cla

Dr. Chuckles said:

who has endorsed children being disrespectful to their piers or adults? What people are doing is pointing out that the mentality of 14 is conductive to such behavior, and that her past career choices will act like a lightening rod fr poor behavior, on top of what already goes on.

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And do you see anyone here denying the mentality of a 14 year old here? If they misbehave then punish them. You punish the people that do wrong, not the people that don't.

Dr. Chuckles said:

Why would any employer chose to put themselves under such additional strain when there are plenty of other teachers out there

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Umm...because its the RIGHT thing to do? See thats the problem with many people these days. They would rather pass the buck than simply do the right thing if that right thing is just a little bit hard.