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Thread: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to cla

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    Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Lol, I know what you mean. I got suspended for something my dad completely agreed with me on, but he still grounded my ass lol.
    yep this!!!!

    this is how I explain to my daughter about fighting, i told her she is still gonna be in trouble BUT yes sometimes you have to do what you gotta do.
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    Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    It's linked way back in the thread, already had to do OJ's homework for him, YOU look back for it. There's a whole deal about morals clauses in general and how they are applied legally as well as breakdown by state.

    I knew about the morals clause in California because I went to college there to become a teacher. This isn't some secret info they sprung on her. She knew going in this would be a problem. Again, that's why she hid the info (guilty mind).

    You know, you keep arguing as if her firing is still in question - it's not. She was fired and for this, just as others have been for similar stuff before her. You don't see the CTA running to her defense, because even the CTA is just fine with this firing.
    she even acknowledges it would be a problem in one of her videos

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    Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I stated my opinion and I'll state it one more time (since you guys are BORDERLINE personally attacking me - why I have no idea) and then I'm out of this thread. But anyhow I don't think it is appropriate for former or current sex industry workers to work so closely with impressionable children. Whether or not the parents are good parents or bad parents is besides the point. If the parents are not there to supervise and the children are online watching their teacher's "performances" it is NOT the fault of the child. I believe that schools should ALWAYS put the best interests of the students (ALL students - even neglected ones) before the best interests of the teachers or any staff/faculty members. That is just my opinion. It is nothing personal. Of course, nobody has to like it, and there is nothing I can do about that.
    I agree and the best interest of the child is to listen to the ADULT, BEHAVE and LEARN, the teachers prior LEGAL profession is MEANINGLESS.

    I know its nothing personal but you do obviously have a bias and of course i apologize if you feel attacked because that was not my intention i was simply pointing out your bias in judging this woman a bias that you yourslef would accept under other circumstances.
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    Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Again, doesn't matter what you see or don't see. Her past as a porn star is material to her [then prospective] employment because, with teaching, there is a morals clause. She knew that going in, that's why she didn't put it in her application. And again, I'll repeat:

    Whether her actions fit in it [the morals clause] is entirely up to the school board, the courts and the community.
    Individual entities have the right to terminate a contact or intact rules that counteract civil liberties, with that said what happened without question was "legal" but was it moral (ironically)?....

    This is a funky subject both legally and morally.

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    Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    It's linked way back in the thread, already had to do OJ's homework for him, YOU look back for it. There's a whole deal about morals clauses in general and how they are applied legally as well as breakdown by state.

    I knew about the morals clause in California because I went to college there to become a teacher. This isn't some secret info they sprung on her. She knew going in this would be a problem. Again, that's why she hid the info (guilty mind).

    You know, you keep arguing as if her firing is still in question - it's not. She was fired and for this, just as others have been for similar stuff before her. You don't see the CTA running to her defense, because even the CTA is just fine with this firing.
    Clearly what is done is done, but this is a debate site, and we're debating the legality and morality of it. Even in the previous morals clause links, I have seen absolutely nothing to suggest that it's retroactive.

    Or perhaps we can fire a teacher because he stole a candy bar back when he was 12.
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    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    From what I can tell, this is it:

    CALIFORNIA: Permanent teachers may be dismissed for immoral or unprofessional conduct, dishonesty, incompetence, evident unfitness for service, a physical or mental condition unfitting for a teacher to instruct or associate with children, persistent violation of school laws or regulations, conviction of a felony or crime involving moral turpitude, or alcoholism or drug abuse rendering teacher unfit for service. Teacher's certificate may be revoked or suspended on the same grounds as those for dismissal or suspension.

    I don't see anything in there about retroactivity, so I don't see how she could've lied.
    The lying argument is a smokescreen.

    That morals clause is ridiculously vague and subject to a wide range of interpretations, which is why some teachers can't even drink wine with dinner in some communities.

    The essential question is whether having sex in front of a video camera is immoral. It does not qualify as immoral in my opinion because no one was harmed. People who base their morality on religious dogma or their revuslsion towards unconventional sexual expression can not be convinced otherwise because you can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.

    I have known several sex workers in my life and I would trust nearly all of them with a child. But then it would not bother me if my child learned to respect people who are different.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 01-21-13 at 04:12 PM.

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    Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    The lying argument is a smokescreen.
    No, it's not. As we all should know by now, it's often what you do and say to cover something up that sinks you. If she believed what she had done was on the up and up (in the context of later working as a middle school teacher), she wouldn't have had to cover it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    That morals clause is ridiculously vague and subject to a wide range of interpretations, which is why some teachers can't even drink wine with dinner in some communities.
    Indeed, and that's precisely on point. That allows for community standards to fill in the blanks. That would be up to local school boards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    The essential question is whether having sex in front of a video camera is immoral. It does not qualify as immoral in my opinion because no one was harmed. People who base their morality on religious dogma or their revuslsion towards unconventional sexual expression can not be convinced otherwise because you can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.
    I think that's off a bit. The essential question is does this community want to hire as middle school teachers those who have had violent and/or humilating sex for money on camera. In this case the answer is no. I'd imagine there are folks in the community who aren't particularly religious who feel the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    I have known several sex workers in my life and I would trust nearly all of them with a child. But then it would not bother me if my child learned to respect people who are different.
    I have as well, but none of them have I ever thought for one moment, this is a person I want to be teaching my young children/grandchildren.
    Last edited by clownboy; 01-21-13 at 04:30 PM.

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    Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Clearly what is done is done, but this is a debate site, and we're debating the legality and morality of it. Even in the previous morals clause links, I have seen absolutely nothing to suggest that it's retroactive.

    Or perhaps we can fire a teacher because he stole a candy bar back when he was 12.
    If there were available videos of multiple incidents where you are stealing candy bars and then reselling them to make money (and you were 18 or older, we generally don't hold minors fully accountable), yes, indeed that would be a probability in many communities. Especially if you lied to hide it.

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    Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Clearly what is done is done, but this is a debate site, and we're debating the legality and morality of it. Even in the previous morals clause links, I have seen absolutely nothing to suggest that it's retroactive.

    Or perhaps we can fire a teacher because he stole a candy bar back when he was 12.
    he left out the part where i wanted proof she violated any contract or agreement or said clauses factually applied to her. I said IF they did then sorry about her luck but per the evidence in this threas its meaningless, so no homework was done on my behave, just ranting about his opinion after i wanted it backed up.

    Until this changes her firing is indeed in question, especially in this thread.
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    Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    he left out the part where i wanted proof she violated any contract or agreement or said clauses factually applied to her. I said IF they did then sorry about her luck but per the evidence in this threas its meaningless, so no homework was done on my behave, just ranting about his opinion after i wanted it backed up.

    Until this changes her firing is indeed in question, especially in this thread.
    Look at the OP if that's what you require. The panel's determination and her firing is that proof.

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