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Thread: White House denies Texas secession

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    Re: White House denies Texas secession

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Case more to the point: MS (red) gets $2.73 back but WV (blue) gets $2.83 back. The average difference is .25 (all blue vs. all red) in favor of the red states. What is ignored, of course, is that southern states are more red than northern states, yet retirees favor the warmer, lower cost southern states for their retirement life; naturally retirees get lots of federal money SS/Medicare yet pay very little taxes. Hmm...
    Sure, the point is though that it's not Conservatives who are paying taxes to Liberals. That's a very narrow minded point of view, and one that I've come to expect from the poster who said that.


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    Re: White House denies Texas secession

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Sure, the point is though that it's not Conservatives who are paying taxes to Liberals. That's a very narrow minded point of view, and one that I've come to expect from the poster who said that.
    I agree, but you seem to assert that the opposite, in fact, occurs. Federal income tax is largely based on absolute earnings so it will naturally be higher in high cost states, federal spending is largely based on old age and low income, so it will naturally be higher in states with larger older and low income populations. Any assertion that political representation is a determining factor of either a states share of FIT paid or its share of age/income based federal assistance is dishonest.

    To use a dishonest rationale to "prove" another post to be dishonest, is hypocritical at best. What is certainly true is that liberals support income redistribution more than conservatives do, perhaps that was the argument being attempted, if not then here it is.
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    Re: White House denies Texas secession

    Not to mention the figures include federal spending such as subsidies which are also to support folks outside the subsidy area. For instance, something like 80% of the foods in your local grocery store have corn in them. If corn subsidies went away, the food costs for everyone would soar.

    Also, this isn't so much about red and blue anymore, but urban and rural centers. Without the rural support the urban could not survive.

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    Re: White House denies Texas secession

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    If corn subsidies went away, the food costs for everyone would soar.
    Yeah, sure. Where do the money for the subsidies come from anyway?

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    Re: White House denies Texas secession

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    To use a dishonest rationale to "prove" another post to be dishonest, is hypocritical at best. What is certainly true is that liberals support income redistribution more than conservatives do, perhaps that was the argument being attempted, if not then here it is.
    I only assert that many "red" states are net takers. You'd think that if conservatives supported liberals, it would be the other way around.

    As far as income redistribution goes: Republicans do support that, it just depends on who gets the redistributed income. I know though, that Republican =/= Conservative and I don't want this to devolve into a "no true Scotsman" thing. However, many conservatives vote Republican, so I'd argue that they support it by their votes even if they don't like it.


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    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: White House denies Texas secession

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    I only assert that many "red" states are net takers. You'd think that if conservatives supported liberals, it would be the other way around.

    As far as income redistribution goes: Republicans do support that, it just depends on who gets the redistributed income. I know though, that Republican =/= Conservative and I don't want this to devolve into a "no true Scotsman" thing. However, many conservatives vote Republican, so I'd argue that they support it by their votes even if they don't like it.
    Fair enough. I often support republicants myself, that I do not completely agree with, yet the demorat alternative is far worse. We are offered very little in the way of candidates that would actully cut any income redistribution nonsense, so I vote for those that are simply less likely to add more of it.

    Using the current "income redistribution" outcome statistics to paint republicants as being bigger takers by including SS in it is not being very fair either, unless you consider intergenerational redistribution as a bad thing. If you find a particular gov't policy not to your liking than argue aganst it, but to simply assert that all politicians are equally guilty gets us nowhere.

    I still see well defined policy differences between the two major parties and vote accordingly, while still hoping that both will stop the endless use of deficit spending and get something that they oppose federal spending on actually cut back.
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    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: White House denies Texas secession

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Case more to the point: MS (red) gets $2.73 back but WV (blue) gets $2.83 back. The average difference is .25 (all blue vs. all red) in favor of the red states. What is ignored, of course, is that southern states are more red than northern states, yet retirees favor the warmer, lower cost southern states for their retirement life; naturally retirees get lots of federal money SS/Medicare yet pay very little taxes. Hmm...
    Is this weighted by population?

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    Re: White House denies Texas secession

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post

    I still see well defined policy differences between the two major parties and vote accordingly, while still hoping that both will stop the endless use of deficit spending and get something that they oppose federal spending on actually cut back.
    There's differences, but the main ones I see are social issues. Gay marriage, etc...I'm pretty liberal on those things.

    As far as the things that really make a huge difference, like government power, taxes, spending...there isn't a big difference. Republicans favor more military spending and less social spending, and they favor things like subsidizing oil companies. Democrats favor subsidizing auto companies and favor less military and more social spending. Both sides favor more taxes if it's proposed by one of their guys. Both parties would do the wiretapping and drone surveillance. I just can't see where voting for one over the other makes that much of a difference.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: White House denies Texas secession

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    But it's important in the determination as to whether or not a State in rebellion IS an independent country. A huge point of Texas v White was the question as to whether or not Texas was independent of the United States from 1861-1865.
    And their conclusion was
    In other words, a State simply declaring itself independent does not make it independent (as a matter of law).
    But again, a independent Texas doesnt care what the US Supreme Court says. Once they declare independence, they no longer have to follow US law.

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    Re: White House denies Texas secession

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Except for one big problem....it is the BLUE states that are the ones that are supporting the Red States. The Conservative red states are the biggest "takers" out there. Oops.
    Here we go again...

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