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Thread: White House denies Texas secession

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    Re: White House denies Texas secession

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    If they wanted states to have free exit, why did they write "Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union between the states of New Hampshire, Massachusetts-bay Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia."

    And then, when the Constitution replaced the Articles they wrote: "...in Order to form a more perfect Union...?"

    IF the Union was perpetual under the Articles,
    AND IF the Constitution made it more perfect,
    AND IF less than perpetual is NOT more perfect than perpetual,
    THEN the Union must also/still be perpetual under the Constitution.
    The second question is easier. More perfect means better than the Confederation. The problems with the Confederation are well known, and states being able to leave it wasnt one of them. In fact, the Articles were anything but perpetual, as the states left it for the Constitution, and the Confederation didnt last very long. Regardless, its moot. The Declaration was written before the Articles, and they cleary state unalienable rights. Which means you can not sign away your right to be free. Even beyond that, its common sense. If Texas were to simply declare independence, and the USA could not stop them, then what is the difference if the USA considers it legal or not? They are for all purposes, out. The law is meaningless unless people consent to follow it.

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    Re: White House denies Texas secession

    Why should we secede ? We'll refuse any of incompetents mandated job killing policies,regulations and laws, incentivize growth in our own economy and highlight the lefts failure by example.

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    Re: White House denies Texas secession

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    The second question is easier. More perfect means better than the Confederation. The problems with the Confederation are well known, and states being able to leave it wasnt one of them.
    But states weren't able to leave the Union....it was explicitly a perpetual Union.

    In fact, the Articles were anything but perpetual, as the states left it for the Constitution, and the Confederation didnt last very long.
    Read it again...it was never stated that the Articles or even the Confederation (form of government) was perpetual, but the Union of the states was a perpetual union..and that's irrespective of the exact form of government.

    Regardless, its moot. The Declaration was written before the Articles, and they cleary state unalienable rights.[/quote]
    For individuals, not for government entities. "Men," not "States" were endowed with unalienable rights.

    Which means you can not sign away your right to be free.
    True...any individual is free to leave their state or country in pursuit of their freedom/happiness (unlike the Soviet Union back in the day).

    Even beyond that, its common sense. If Texas were to simply declare independence, and the USA could not stop them, then what is the difference if the USA considers it legal or not? They are for all purposes, out. The law is meaningless unless people consent to follow it.
    So, if say Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississipi, Tennessee, Arkansas, Louisiana and Texas declared independence they would be out for all purposes and that's it? Wasn't that tried already?

    The Supreme Court ruled in Texas v White (1869)
    When, therefore, Texas became one of the United States, she entered into an indissoluble relation. All the obligations of perpetual union, and all the guaranties of republican government in the Union, attached at once to the State. The act which consummated her admission into the Union was something more than a compact; it was the incorporation of a new member into the political body. And it was final. The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration, or revocation, except through revolution, or through consent of the States.
    And there's a lot of Federal land in Texas, and a lot of US military that is in the interest of the US to protect. In a voluntary seperation, deals could be made, but that's just not possible in a unilateral move or secession.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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    Re: White House denies Texas secession

    Good. I like Texas and I don't want them to go

    Is the hostility that a lot of people have towards Texas still about our former President being from that state?
    I believe half of the things I say and say half of the things I believe.

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    Re: White House denies Texas secession

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    But states weren't able to leave the Union....it was explicitly a perpetual Union.

    Read it again...it was never stated that the Articles or even the Confederation (form of government) was perpetual, but the Union of the states was a perpetual union..and that's irrespective of the exact form of government.

    For individuals, not for government entities. "Men," not "States" were endowed with unalienable rights.


    True...any individual is free to leave their state or country in pursuit of their freedom/happiness (unlike the Soviet Union back in the day).

    So, if say Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississipi, Tennessee, Arkansas, Louisiana and Texas declared independence they would be out for all purposes and that's it? Wasn't that tried already?

    The Supreme Court ruled in Texas v White (1869)
    And there's a lot of Federal land in Texas, and a lot of US military that is in the interest of the US to protect. In a voluntary seperation, deals could be made, but that's just not possible in a unilateral move or secession.
    The supreme court is irrelevant. Their authority comes from a govt which has no power over a independent country.

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    Re: White House denies Texas secession

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    The supreme court is irrelevant. Their authority comes from a govt which has no power over a independent country.
    But it's important in the determination as to whether or not a State in rebellion IS an independent country. A huge point of Texas v White was the question as to whether or not Texas was independent of the United States from 1861-1865.
    If, therefore, it is true that the State of Texas was not at he time of filing this bill, or is not now, one of the United States, we have no jurisdiction of this suit, and it is our duty to dismiss it.
    And their conclusion was
    Considered therefore as transactions under the Constitution, the ordinance of secession, adopted by the convention and ratified by a majority of the citizens of Texas, and all the acts of her legislature intended to give effect to that ordinance, were absolutely null. They were utterly without operation in law. The obligations of the State, as a member of the Union, and of every citizen of the State, as a citizen of the United States, remained perfect and unimpaired. It certainly follows that the State did not cease to be a State, nor her citizens to be citizens of the Union. If this were otherwise, the State must have become foreign, and her citizens foreigners. The war must have ceased to be a war for the suppression of rebellion, and must have become a war for conquest and subjugation.

    Our conclusion therefore is, that Texas continued to be a State, and a State of the Union, notwithstanding the transactions to which we have referred. And this conclusion, in our judgment, is not in conflict with any act or declaration of any department of the National government, but entirely in accordance with the whole series of such acts and declarations since the first outbreak of the rebellion.
    In other words, a State simply declaring itself independent does not make it independent (as a matter of law).
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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    Re: White House denies Texas secession

    If the constitution is so old and outdated as liberals claim it is what is holding Texas except the threat of retribution?

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    Re: White House denies Texas secession

    Of course the Chief won't let the Indians get away, or in this case, the Massa his slaves.

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    Re: White House denies Texas secession

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungConserv View Post
    If the constitution is so old and outdated as liberals claim it is what is holding Texas except the threat of retribution?
    Becuase the MAJORITY of Texans don't want to leave the U.S.

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    Re: White House denies Texas secession

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungConserv View Post
    If the constitution is so old and outdated as liberals claim it is what is holding Texas except the threat of retribution?

    If you or other Texans don't like the U.S., feel free to leave anytime you want to on a plane to another country.

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