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Thread: Obama chides GOP on debt limit: 'We are not a deadbeat nation'

  1. #181
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    Re: Obama chides GOP on debt limit: 'We are not a deadbeat nation'

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The worlds leaders like the same things about Obama as the world's people do.
    Where is your source?

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    Re: Obama chides GOP on debt limit: 'We are not a deadbeat nation'

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    S&P, not Moody's, reduced the U.S. credit rating. The others, including S&P, have the U.S. on negative outlook. The debt crisis in Europe, "safe haven" value of the U.S., and quantitative easing all coincided to help produce that benign outcome. Then, the U.S did not default.

    A partial default would very likely be a different matter. It would demonstrate that a commitment to honor the nation's obligations is no longer a binding constraint on its policy makers. Once they cross the threshold of partially defaulting, they will have established a precedent that the U.S. can default. Once the U.S. is no longer viewed as "exceptional" in the area of finance, there will be a risk premium. I suspect it would be modest, but over the long-term, even a 10 or 20 basis point premium can have a large impact.

    Also, it should be noted that absent a self-inflicted partial default, the U.S. does not face an imminent debt crisis. In no way am I suggesting such an outcome is likely absent a fiscal consolidation agreement. That's where the deficit hawks get things wrong. The risk is medium-term and beyond. A timely and credible fiscal consolidation agreement gives the nation a transitional period in which it can stabilize and then reduce its debt relative to GDP. The absence of such a program will, in the medium-term and beyond, reduce the nation's flexibility and reduce the transitional period in which it can act to address its fiscal imbalances.
    While all this is true there doesn't appear to be any will of either political party to get control of spending, much less pay down the debt or present a budget, and the majority of the electorate appear to feel the same way.

    So while that "the U.S. does not face an imminent debt crisis' that point will always get closer unless some real measures are taken. That will not happen during Obama's term, when the debt will be $20, and whether his successor can run on cutting and spending remains to be seen. At this point it would seem that only market forces can get US spending under some control. or they will repay their debt through inflationary dollars.

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    Re: Obama chides GOP on debt limit: 'We are not a deadbeat nation'

    Hmmm maybe you should to
    Ten Appalling Lies We Were Told About Iraq | Alternet

    Believe me I can go on we should have never went to Iraq. Bush and Reagan flat out wasted money money fighting War that never there.

  4. #184
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    Re: Obama chides GOP on debt limit: 'We are not a deadbeat nation'

    Quote Originally Posted by TaraAnne View Post
    Hmmm maybe you should to
    Ten Appalling Lies We Were Told About Iraq | Alternet

    Believe me I can go on we should have never went to Iraq. Bush and Reagan flat out wasted money money fighting War that never there.
    Irrelevant. You said "Clinton had nothing to do with Iraq." You were absolutely incorrect, despite your conspiracy theory source. while you're talking about wasting money, look up Clinton and the Balkans.

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    Re: Obama chides GOP on debt limit: 'We are not a deadbeat nation'

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Next youll be suggesting the white house do its job of enforcing existing laws, instead of telling congress to pass new ones.
    Whoa, careful there now buddy. We're talking about the government here. Let's not get crazy. Makin' sense and all that.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    Re: Obama chides GOP on debt limit: 'We are not a deadbeat nation'

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Talking about Obama "budgets" is a hard thing to do, since none actually get any votes in congress,
    After it was amended by the tea party in the House, I would expect not.

    but I will try.
    I have no doubt you will try!

    Total military spending is 24% of the federal budget spending, so cutting all defense spending would still leave over 1/3 of our deficit.
    You are ignoring the other things have been proposed to address the deficit. The president said we will need to change the COLA rate, increase the retirement age over time, and increase the FICA cap. These changes make SS solvent for the long term and not a part of the federal deficit. Then of course, we will have increased revenues coming in as we continue to come out of the great recession, even more so with the increased tax rates for the wealthy. And then there is the tax reform that the Republicans wanted that will generate more income. And finally, upgrading to single payer system will reduce health care costs which is the biggest driver of national debt.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama chides GOP on debt limit: 'We are not a deadbeat nation'

    Quote Originally Posted by TaraAnne View Post
    Hmmm maybe you should to
    Ten Appalling Lies We Were Told About Iraq | Alternet

    Believe me I can go on we should have never went to Iraq. Bush and Reagan flat out wasted money money fighting War that never there.
    Which war was Reagan involved in that was never there?

    He won in Granada and saw the collapse of Communism, the only successful victories the United States has seen since WWII.

    Meanwhile Obama has racked up two losses, so far.

  8. #188
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    Re: Obama chides GOP on debt limit: 'We are not a deadbeat nation'

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    even if the debt ceiling were not raised, government would still operate, because money from taxes is still flowing into the treasury.

    it would mean government would have to prioritize its spending and pay, for essentials services only.

    obama will only promise to cut spending in the future, he will not be for cutting anything serious today, because he knows he or congress today cannot force a congress of tomorrow do anything.

    look for promises, but no real action.
    No, it would have to prioritize on its PAYMENTS (as the spending has already incurred) and decide which of its already in-place obligations it wishes to default on.

    You can completely shut down government and send everyone home, including the the POTUS, the SCOTUS and the COTUS, the entire military, the FBI/CIA and Border Patrol and THEN the incoming receipts would cover the obligations of the government as the discretionary spend of the US is only $1.5T

    This works in the short-run, as laying off the entire government creates its own recession and revenues dwindle.

  9. #189
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    Re: Obama chides GOP on debt limit: 'We are not a deadbeat nation'

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Another attempt at Objectification/Characterization because you cannot refute facts.

    Clearly you are running away from the debate with your tail tucked firmly between your legs. Consider this my last response unless you address every point made in post #163 directly and in full context. I have repeatedly and directly addressed every single point you have made thoroughly with multiple main stream sources, while you have repeatedly run away from mine, masking your lack of rebuttals with patronizing arrogance, endless strawmen, and a phony dismissive attitude.
    WTF are you talking about? You see, this is the problem; it is impossible to have a discussion with someone who cannot even stay within the context of the discussion. Case in point (i will only use two examples for time sake):

    When you made a comment:
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson
    Obama didn't spend enough money
    (which was in disagreement)

    I responded with support for my argument:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    This is the reality. Only $114 billion in actual spending surfaced in 2009 (0.8% of GDP), $235 billion in 2010 (1.6% of GDP), and $145 billion in 2011 (0.96% of GDP).
    To which you respond in a manner that does not AT ALL pertain to my argument:
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Your link is a year old and the premise is misleading. The money you claim "wasn't spent" was still already tied up in projects, contracts, obligations, and subsidies. Even the AP reported in early 2011 that only 7billion of the 800B stimulus hadn't been accounted for. The CBO has also said by the end of Q4 2013, only 400K jobs will be sustained by the Stimulus. That's a cost of more than 2 million per job.
    I never claimed anything was not spent; not one time! My point was that the stimulus package was small, which can be reflected in its representation of U.S. output for each particular year. You continue with your rant by stating NOTHING that can be even considered a minor refutation of my point; the stimulus was far too small. How can it be possible to have a coherent discussion with someone who refuses to respond with even minimal relevance?

    I go on to explain why the negative externalities/opportunity cost of large fiscal deficits are minor at best:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator
    Again, government spending is not likely to crowd out private investment when there are idle resources in the form of both labor and capital.
    To which you repsond:
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson
    Government Spending is taking money out of the hands of private investors who would have otherwise invested that Capital more wisely than Government. It's called Risk. Nobody claimed private investment is being "crowded out". It's being taken away. Clearly you don't understand what Opportunity Costs and Negative Externalities even are.
    ??? Crowding out is the instance where government spending takes money out of capital markets to the tune where private investment is stiffeled! It is not called risk, it is called crowding out private investment. Again, how is it possible to have a coherent discussion with someone who cannot even comprehend the vocabulary associated with their own arguments?!?!?! Crowding out is THE negative externality/opportunity cost of large budgetary deficits.

    When you discover the ability to have an adult discussion, then by all means.... But what you have put forth so far is... well, rather embarrassing.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Obama chides GOP on debt limit: 'We are not a deadbeat nation'

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    No way that list adds up to 250B/year

    More rightwing fuzzy math
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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