Page 17 of 23 FirstFirst ... 71516171819 ... LastLast
Results 161 to 170 of 229

Thread: Obama chides GOP on debt limit: 'We are not a deadbeat nation'

  1. #161
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New York
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 12:40 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    11,691

    Re: Obama chides GOP on debt limit: 'We are not a deadbeat nation'

    From Fitch Credit Ratings:

    In Fitch's opinion, the debt ceiling is an ineffective and potentially dangerous mechanism for enforcing fiscal discipline. It does not prevent tax and spending decisions that will incur debt issuance in excess of the ceiling while the sanction of not raising the ceiling risks a sovereign default and renders such a threat incredible.

    The statutory limitation on federal debt is a long-standing feature of the U.S. fiscal framework and applies to nearly all Treasury debt, whether held by the public or in government accounts. Protracted debate prior to increasing the debt ceiling is not an exceptional event, but against the backdrop of unprecedentedly large peacetime budget deficits and outstanding debt, any delay in raising the limit would pose ever increasing risks to the ability of the federal government to honour its obligations in a timely fashion. The last time Congress approved an increase in the debt ceiling in August 2011, the federal government came perilously close to being in a situation where, in the words of the Treasury Secretary, it would be unable "to meet our commitments securely"...

    In the absence of an agreed and credible medium-term deficit reduction plan that would be consistent with sustaining the economic recovery and restoring confidence in the long-run sustainability of U.S. public finances, the current Negative Outlook on the 'AAA' rating is likely to be resolved with a downgrade later this year even if another debt ceiling crisis is averted.


    Fitch Ratings - Dedicated to providing value beyond the rating

    It has now been two weeks since the fiscal cliff issue was resolved. Neither the Congress nor the President have opened negotiations on a fiscal consolidation program, much less offered any concrete fiscal consolidation plans. As a substitute for fiscal responsiblity, some Members of the House appear willing to drive the nation into partial default. However, some responsible political leaders are starting to push back and are rejecting efforts to play politics with the debt ceiling.

  2. #162
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Republic of Florida
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 04:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    14,040

    Re: Obama chides GOP on debt limit: 'We are not a deadbeat nation'

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    From Fitch Credit Ratings:

    In Fitch's opinion, the debt ceiling is an ineffective and potentially dangerous mechanism for enforcing fiscal discipline. It does not prevent tax and spending decisions that will incur debt issuance in excess of the ceiling while the sanction of not raising the ceiling risks a sovereign default and renders such a threat incredible.

    The statutory limitation on federal debt is a long-standing feature of the U.S. fiscal framework and applies to nearly all Treasury debt, whether held by the public or in government accounts. Protracted debate prior to increasing the debt ceiling is not an exceptional event, but against the backdrop of unprecedentedly large peacetime budget deficits and outstanding debt, any delay in raising the limit would pose ever increasing risks to the ability of the federal government to honour its obligations in a timely fashion. The last time Congress approved an increase in the debt ceiling in August 2011, the federal government came perilously close to being in a situation where, in the words of the Treasury Secretary, it would be unable "to meet our commitments securely"...

    In the absence of an agreed and credible medium-term deficit reduction plan that would be consistent with sustaining the economic recovery and restoring confidence in the long-run sustainability of U.S. public finances, the current Negative Outlook on the 'AAA' rating is likely to be resolved with a downgrade later this year even if another debt ceiling crisis is averted.


    Fitch Ratings - Dedicated to providing value beyond the rating

    It has now been two weeks since the fiscal cliff issue was resolved. Neither the Congress nor the President have opened negotiations on a fiscal consolidation program, much less offered any concrete fiscal consolidation plans. As a substitute for fiscal responsiblity, some Members of the House appear willing to drive the nation into partial default. However, some responsible political leaders are starting to push back and are rejecting efforts to play politics with the debt ceiling.
    Fitches opinion is just as wrong as anyone else. Whether the debt ceiling is raised or not, the US should lose its credit rating. This whole mess proves that the US is not a good fiscal risk. When I borrow more money my credit rating goes down. So should the US.

  3. #163
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Last Seen
    10-20-13 @ 04:50 AM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    3,195

    Re: Obama chides GOP on debt limit: 'We are not a deadbeat nation'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    This is the reality. Only $114 billion in actual spending surfaced in 2009 (0.8% of GDP), $235 billion in 2010 (1.6% of GDP), and $145 billion in 2011 (0.96% of GDP).
    Your link is a year old and the premise is misleading. The money you claim "wasn't spent" was still already tied up in projects, contracts, obligations, and subsidies. Even the AP reported in early 2011 that only 7billion of the 800B stimulus hadn't been accounted for. The CBO has also said by the end of Q4 2013, only 400K jobs will be sustained by the Stimulus. That's a cost of more than 2 million per job.

    Obama Advisor: Stimulus Will Impact the Economy Immediately - ABC News

    All over the country you’re going to see shovels in the ground. You’re going to see construction projects under way.
    Obama "Not as shovel ready as expected"

    Obama: Shovel-Ready Not as Shovel-Ready as We Expected - YouTube

    http://mercatus.org/sites/default/fi...ady_WP1118.pdf

    Never made this argument, so please do not put words in my mouth.
    Sure you did. You do every time you insist the Stimulus wasn't big enough.

    Obama set aside a massive amount of Stimulus Funds for "Green Jobs". He basically acted like an Investment Banker in an effort to create an entirely new market of electric cars and Green Energy. It didn't work

    Whoops

    Not only that but there was no real net gain in economic activity because again, people who went and bought cars, were for the most part, people who were going to buy cars anyways.

    A123 Systems sold at a loss to the taxpayer - Chinese acquisition of A123 assets spurs debate on US support of clean energy - Business - The Boston Globe

    Obama touting A123 as a "Stimulus Success" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPWLaw0i86s

    Fisker - Fisker failure hurts Delaware taxpayers twice | Times 247

    Delaware taxpayers appear to be getting soaked twice ... The company has yet to produce a car in Delaware, and taxpayers are footing the electric bill for the idle plant
    Business: Washington Post Business Page, Business News

    The reality is: that business model isn’t there yet,” said Brett Smith, co-director of manufacturing, engineering and technology at the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor, Michigan. “It isn’t there yet for volume. It isn’t there yet for reaching the mass consumer. And it probably isn’t going to be there for a while
    GM?s vaunted Volt is on the road to nowhere fast - Washington Post

    No matter how you slice it, the American taxpayer has gotten precious little for the administration’s investment in battery-powered vehicles, in terms of permanent jobs or lower carbon dioxide emissions. The basic theory of the Obama push for electric vehicles — if you build them, customers will come — was a myth. And an expensive one, at that.
    Review & Outlook: The Solyndra Memorial Tax Break - WSJ.com

    Perhaps you thought the Solyndra scandal amounted to a $535 million government loan that will never be repaid. No such luck. In the latest twist, Solyndra's investors could be rewarded for their failure, thanks to a tax benefit the Administration handed out in a bid to evade political accountability.
    Again, government spending is not likely to crowd out private investment when there are idle resources in the form of both labor and capital.
    Government Spending is taking money out of the hands of private investors who would have otherwise invested that Capital more wisely than Government. It's called Risk. Nobody claimed private investment is being "crowded out". It's being taken away. Clearly you don't understand what Opportunity Costs and Negative Externalities even are. When you have a Fed that admits it's wasting 125B a year on "improper payments", then there is a problem with your rhetoric. We KNOW that 125B could have been put to much better use by someone other than the Feds. Now calculate the rest of the billions wasted on projects like Solyndra, Brightsource, ect.

    Did Stimulus Dollars Hire the Unemployed? | Mercatus

    Labor actually WAS crowded out with Stimulus money

    Hiring isn’t the same as net job creation. In our survey, just 42.1 percent of the workers hired at ARRA-receiving organizations after January 31, 2009, were unemployed at the time they were hired (Appendix C). More were hired directly from other organizations(47.3 percent of post-ARRA workers), while a handful came from school (6.5%) or from outside the labor force (4.1%) (Figure 2). Thus, there was an almost even split between“job creating” and “job switching.This suggests just how hard it is for Keynesian job creation to work in a modern, expertise-based economy: even in a weak economy, organizations hired the employed about as often as the unemployed
    There is also organizational capital lost from the company who lost the employee who switched jobs because of Stimulus Funding. They invested money in that employee (especially mid level IT/Database Administration ect), and will now have to fill the void, which costs additional capital. Again, this just proves beyond refute that you do not understand the concept of Opportunity Costs and Negative Externalities. My advice would be go back to school and take a basic economics class to get up to speed. Also a lot of that Stimulus money was used to employ temp workers. Not permanent workers. Firms just got more productivity out of their existing employees for the most part. Your premises are shortsighted and incorrect.

    In the event a family faces an immense income strain from sustained unemployment, consumption must fall by definition. You cannot pay for goods and services with money you do not have. I am not sure what you are arguing here, but it simply does not make any sense.
    You're dodging. If you're not sure what I'm arguing than that is just more proof you do not comprehend basic economics. People on welfare/unemployment pay for goods and services with resources taken out of the private sector that would have otherwise been invested in other opportunities for growth. They don't contribute any productivity for that income. It's a shifting of resources. Not a creation of new wealth. Got it now? Good.

    You can't just dismiss everything that doesn't conform to your ideology as "not making sense"

    This is a classic example of a strawman; not to mention it is rather inconsistent given the fiscal dissimilarities regarding the respective countries.
    See above. Projection noted

    That is not the intention of unemployment insurance disbursements. They are supposed to consume goods and services with the proceeds which has a stabilizing effect on aggregate demand. Nobody is making the claim (although you are responding as such) that fiscal stabilization policy is a leading engine of economic growth. In reality, it is more of a last resort.
    That's not what Obama and the Democrats have claimed. You're trying to move the goal post.

    Pelosi Unemployment - YouTube

    So billions upon billions is taken out of the private economy (which creates jobs) to pay people for 99 weeks to sit on their a$$es and buy food at a grocery store. You're assuming that A) 99 weeks of unemployment is necessary B) 47 million on Food Stamps/Welfare is nec

    First and foremost, the U.S. economy is of the most productive in the world and productivity continues to grow as fast or faster than output. Secondly, a trade deficit serves as an extension to said productivity as it allows the U.S. to focus on it's comparative advantages (which is critical to being productive!).
    Our trade deficit is mostly with China. Those are jobs that are NEVER coming back.

    GDP growth Q2 2012 was only 1.3%. Maybe you want to believe in unicorns. I don't.

    GDP Growth projections are way short of what Obama predicted they would be right now. He predicted 4.2%. The rosiest of predictions puts it at 2.5%

    Rather odd you felt the need to bring FDR into this mix. Here is the proper source of the paper you have provided.

    Which means that further analysis is needed to establish accuracy.
    Rather odd? So comparing relatively identical economic policies between the 2 largest economic recessions in US history is "odd"? It says it right there. A multiplier of 1. Maybe you want to consider that "inconclusive" but unfortunately for you there is additional research that confirms I am indeed correct.

    As someone who claims to be such an economic genius, surely you have read it? No?

    FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate / UCLA Newsroom

    Why the Great Depression lasted so long has always been a great mystery, and because we never really knew the reason, we have always worried whether we would have another 10- to 15-year economic slump," said Ohanian, vice chair of UCLA's Department of Economics. "We found that a relapse isn't likely unless lawmakers gum up a recovery with ill-conceived stimulus policies.
    However, i do not expect you to have even the slightest understanding of econometrics, so it is rather odd you linked this paper.
    Projection noted

    So they were wrong. Not sure how this negates anything i have stated in regards to this subject.
    Just dismiss anything that shatters your ideology. Shrug it off. Nothing to see here. Move along. (Dodge noted)

    Now you are getting desperate,
    In other words you can't refute facts. You do realize that the % of Americans Employed that are working age is the about the same as it was 4 years ago right? That statistic right there destroys every false premise and deflection you've brought into this thread.

    I have come to expect nothing less from you. Clearly you're ideological partisan who pretends behind a curtain of smugness, who obfuscates, deflects, dismisses inconvenient facts that tear apart his endless strawmen, and shrugs off anything that shatters his ideological nonsense.

    Have a nice day
    Last edited by Bronson; 01-15-13 at 02:14 PM.

  4. #164
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Loop
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:01 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,261

    Re: Obama chides GOP on debt limit: 'We are not a deadbeat nation'

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Your link is a year old and the premise is misleading. The money you claim "wasn't spent" was still already tied up in projects, contracts, obligations, and subsidies. Even the AP reported in early 2011 that only 7billion of the 800B stimulus hadn't been accounted for. The CBO has also said by the end of Q4 2013, only 400K jobs will be sustained by the Stimulus. That's a cost of more than 2 million per job.

    Obama Advisor: Stimulus Will Impact the Economy Immediately - ABC News



    Obama "Not as shovel ready as expected"

    Obama: Shovel-Ready Not as Shovel-Ready as We Expected - YouTube

    http://mercatus.org/sites/default/fi...ady_WP1118.pdf



    Sure you did. You do every time you insist the Stimulus wasn't big enough.

    Obama set aside a massive amount of Stimulus Funds for "Green Jobs". He basically acted like an Investment Banker in an effort to create an entirely new market of electric cars and Green Energy. It didn't work

    Whoops

    Not only that but there was no real net gain in economic activity because again, people who went and bought cars, were for the most part, people who were going to buy cars anyways.

    A123 Systems sold at a loss to the taxpayer - Chinese acquisition of A123 assets spurs debate on US support of clean energy - Business - The Boston Globe

    Obama touting A123 as a "Stimulus Success" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPWLaw0i86s

    Fisker - Fisker failure hurts Delaware taxpayers twice | Times 247



    Business: Washington Post Business Page, Business News



    GM?s vaunted Volt is on the road to nowhere fast - Washington Post



    Review & Outlook: The Solyndra Memorial Tax Break - WSJ.com





    Government Spending is taking money out of the hands of private investors who would have otherwise invested that Capital more wisely than Government. It's called Risk. Nobody claimed private investment is being "crowded out". It's being taken away. Clearly you don't understand what Opportunity Costs and Negative Externalities even are. When you have a Fed that admits it's wasting 125B a year on "improper payments", then there is a problem with your rhetoric. We KNOW that 125B could have been put to much better use by someone other than the Feds. Now calculate the rest of the billions wasted on projects like Solyndra, Brightsource, ect.

    Did Stimulus Dollars Hire the Unemployed? | Mercatus

    Labor actually WAS crowded out with Stimulus money



    There is also organizational capital lost from the company who lost the employee who switched jobs because of Stimulus Funding. They invested money in that employee (especially mid level IT/Database Administration ect), and will now have to fill the void, which costs additional capital. Again, this just proves beyond refute that you do not understand the concept of Opportunity Costs and Negative Externalities. My advice would be go back to school and take a basic economics class to get up to speed. Also a lot of that Stimulus money was used to employ temp workers. Not permanent workers. Firms just got more productivity out of their existing employees for the most part. Your premises are shortsighted and incorrect.



    You're dodging. If you're not sure what I'm arguing than that is just more proof you do not comprehend basic economics. People on welfare/unemployment pay for goods and services with resources taken out of the private sector that would have otherwise been invested in other opportunities for growth. They don't contribute any productivity for that income. It's a shifting of resources. Not a creation of new wealth. Got it now? Good.

    You can't just dismiss everything that doesn't conform to your ideology as "not making sense"



    See above. Projection noted



    That's not what Obama and the Democrats have claimed. You're trying to move the goal post.

    Pelosi Unemployment - YouTube

    So billions upon billions is taken out of the private economy (which creates jobs) to pay people for 99 weeks to sit on their a$$es and buy food at a grocery store. You're assuming that A) 99 weeks of unemployment is necessary B) 47 million on Food Stamps/Welfare is nec



    Our trade deficit is mostly with China. Those are jobs that are NEVER coming back.

    GDP growth Q2 2012 was only 1.3%. Maybe you want to believe in unicorns. I don't.

    GDP Growth projections are way short of what Obama predicted they would be right now. He predicted 4.2%. The rosiest of predictions puts it at 2.5%



    Rather odd? So comparing relatively identical economic policies between the 2 largest economic recessions in US history is "odd"? It says it right there. A multiplier of 1. Maybe you want to consider that "inconclusive" but unfortunately for you there is additional research that confirms I am indeed correct.

    As someone who claims to be such an economic genius, surely you have read it? No?

    FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate / UCLA Newsroom





    Projection noted



    Just dismiss anything that shatters your ideology. Shrug it off. Nothing to see here. Move along. (Dodge noted)



    In other words you can't refute facts. You do realize that the % of Americans Employed that are working age is the about the same as it was 4 years ago right? That statistic right there destroys every false premise and deflection you've brought into this thread.

    I have come to expect nothing less from you. Clearly you're ideological partisan who pretends behind a curtain of smugness, who obfuscates, deflects, dismisses inconvenient facts that tear apart his endless strawmen, and shrugs off anything that shatters his ideological nonsense.

    Have a nice day
    There is no point in continuing a discussion with someone who believes they are debating with the Obama administration via proxy. Your arguments do not make sense because they are random rants that lack relevancy to the discussion at hand.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  5. #165
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Last Seen
    10-20-13 @ 04:50 AM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    3,195

    Re: Obama chides GOP on debt limit: 'We are not a deadbeat nation'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    There is no point in continuing a discussion with someone who believes they are debating with the Obama administration via proxy. Your arguments do not make sense because they are random rants that lack relevancy to the discussion at hand.
    You can't refute facts. You are attempting to objectify/characterize instead of debate. That won't work.

    So in reality there is no point in any further discussion with you. Clearly you're a dishonest hack.

  6. #166
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada, Costa Rica
    Last Seen
    05-16-16 @ 09:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,645

    Re: Obama chides GOP on debt limit: 'We are not a deadbeat nation'

    The US bureaucracy is becoming more powerful and with a greater power shift away from the States to Washington, billions of dollars have disappeared through "stimulus spending" and Obama appears to be deliberately destroying the economy. And soon he will decimate the military, no doubt as part of his 'flexibility' with Putin.

    Perhaps there should have been more vetting of this presidential candidate but that was discouraged at every step, and still is. It is truly amazing that many Americans would not want background checks on a person responsible for their economy and their future. Brains have not just been washed, they have been tumble dried, folded and packaged in cellophane wrapping.

  7. #167
    Sage
    Mach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    11,507

    Re: Obama chides GOP on debt limit: 'We are not a deadbeat nation'

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Perhaps there should have been more vetting of this presidential candidate but that was discouraged at every step, and still is. It is truly amazing that many Americans would not want background checks on a person responsible for their economy and their future. Brains have not just been washed, they have been tumble dried, folded and packaged in cellophane wrapping.
    These sorts of arguments might have been effective were it not for the president just prior to Obama having been Bush. Just saying.

  8. #168
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Loop
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:01 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,261

    Re: Obama chides GOP on debt limit: 'We are not a deadbeat nation'

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    You can't refute facts. You are attempting to objectify/characterize instead of debate. That won't work.

    So in reality there is no point in any further discussion with you. Clearly you're a dishonest hack.
    I am not here to answer to you for your disdain of the Obama administration. We get it, you hate the current administration; but nobody cares.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  9. #169
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada, Costa Rica
    Last Seen
    05-16-16 @ 09:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,645

    Re: Obama chides GOP on debt limit: 'We are not a deadbeat nation'

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    These sorts of arguments might have been effective were it not for the president just prior to Obama having been Bush. Just saying.

    Well what you're just saying doesn't make a great deal of sense as the discussion was related to Barrack Obama and none of his 43 predecessors.

  10. #170
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Last Seen
    10-20-13 @ 04:50 AM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    3,195

    Re: Obama chides GOP on debt limit: 'We are not a deadbeat nation'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    I am not here to answer to you for your disdain of the Obama administration. We get it, you hate the current administration; but nobody cares.
    Another attempt at Objectification/Characterization because you cannot refute facts.

    Clearly you are running away from the debate with your tail tucked firmly between your legs. Consider this my last response unless you address every point made in post #163 directly and in full context. I have repeatedly and directly addressed every single point you have made thoroughly with multiple main stream sources, while you have repeatedly run away from mine, masking your lack of rebuttals with patronizing arrogance, endless strawmen, and a phony dismissive attitude.

    Have a nice day

Page 17 of 23 FirstFirst ... 71516171819 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •