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Sheriff's Office wants to fly drones over Orange County skies

DaveFagan said:
I'm not in favor of more militarization of local police. I see "creep" from Federal agencies and then coming in to show locals how to use their new toys. Look at all the new and rebuilt jails and sheriff's offices and rotary clip shotguns and flak vests and ad infinitum. With the new toys come agencies looking to gain influence. Prying eyes and privacy. Invasion of privacy and what's next.
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Those new toys also bring a need to use (justify) them, but at what cost!?
 
I see a problem with this. Big Brother. Nuff said.
 
specklebang said:
They are "instinctively" against these things. Every one of them was objected to and despised as intrusive when it came into use. Fat lot of good that did. I'm "against" a lot of things and "in favor of" a lot of other things and so far. even MY influence has been very limited since..... well, let me give you an example.

My cats think it is morally wrong of me to deprive them of access to the treat containers. It's their food and they feel they should be the ones to decide when and if they want to eat them.

Tough titty-kitty. I'm their ruler. I'm their owner. I make the rules, not them. If you think its any different for you and your government...I think you're wrong and that they will do as they prefer, not as you prefer.
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Well, Progressives, and the Liberals of today better hope that no one else actually believes that, otherwise as a free people we have the right to remove that government, and constitute one that we the people agree with. But, I don't believe you actually believe that our government "rules" us.
 
bicycleman said:
I live in a very rural area across from the Great Dismal Swamp. Several years ago a hunter became lost in that swamp. His girl friend called authorities to tell them he had not yet returned from the hunt. A large search party was assembled with police helicopters searching the area. Since I have no neighbors, I never close the shades to my windows. I had gone to bed early and I was awakened around 10 by a bright light in my face. I looked out the window to see a helicopter hovering just above my house with a search light beamed into my window. I flipped them the bird at which moment the helicopter rose and went off toward the swamp a quarter of mile away. Granted, I have woods behind my house, but that pilot knew where the swamp was, and if that hunter was in my back yard, he was no longer lost. They charge people with crimes for being peeping Toms, but this was the police shining spotlights in open windows in the hopes they'd see my wife half naked. Instead they got a very irate husband awakened form a deep sleep. I called the local authorities over the incident, but I got the cursory reply that the helicopter was en route to the swamp and the light just barely brushed by my window. I have been around rotary and fixed wing aircraft over 30 years. I know when one is hovering or not. Somehow, I no longer feel safe around law enforcement.
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A bright light shined your window

How horrible
 
sangha said:
A bright light shined your window

How horrible
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What I'm getting at is that technology like this will be abused by the police and those in authority. Look what certain TSA agents have been caught doing. It's all about big brother watching you.
 
I don't think there is a "We, the people". Just look at DP and how opposite the positions are. Do you think we have consensus? On anything? No matter the topic, about half or more thoroughly disagree wit the opposition. All black and white and damn little grayscale.

You only have one way to "remove" the government. That just happened. It was an election, participated in by relatively few citizens. How satisfied are you with the outcome?



j-mac said:
Well, Progressives, and the Liberals of today better hope that no one else actually believes that, otherwise as a free people we have the right to remove that government, and constitute one that we the people agree with. But, I don't believe you actually believe that our government "rules" us.
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specklebang said:
I don't think there is a "We, the people". Just look at DP and how opposite the positions are. Do you think we have consensus? On anything? No matter the topic, about half or more thoroughly disagree wit the opposition. All black and white and damn little grayscale.

You only have one way to "remove" the government. That just happened. It was an election, participated in by relatively few citizens. How satisfied are you with the outcome?
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Not true, in fact in our History there was another time when the tyrannical ruler of the colonies tried to disarm the population of the US to prevent rebellion. It failed.
 
Lets stick with the OP of this thread and apply the use of technology to increase government control. We're discussing anti-crime technology, not personal firearm ownership. Things have changed quite a bit since the 18th century. We've added 300 million people and we've passed the industrial age into the technological age.

I;m not taking a right or wrong position on this. I'm simply saying that we are, in fact, ruled by the government and the government can and will use newly developed technology to observe and control us. Some may bitch about it but that changes nothing.

Reality is what is, not what you want it to be.
Frank Zappa



j-mac said:
Not true, in fact in our History there was another time when the tyrannical ruler of the colonies tried to disarm the population of the US to prevent rebellion. It failed.
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j-mac said:
Many argue that real political change begins, and is strongest at the local levels. This is one area where there is near unanimity in silence from the loudest voices that screamed that Bush, Republicans, and "NeoCons" were circumventing the right to privacy through its use of warrant-less surveillance of calls entering the US from overseas, from people known to be affiliated with AQ in some way. Now, look at what the tech world in fighting wars has brought us...

Now, for those of you who agree that we should not have drones, and the capabilities that come with technology they have, should we also be railing against Helicopter units within the law enforcement community?

And for those of you who say it is no different that the Helicopter unit, then my question is can the Helo unit see inside your house?

I admit I really don't know how I feel about this.

Thoughts?
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Just so you know since you seemed ot have played the partisan card... here is some info about Orange County:

It is known for its affluence and political conservatism – a 2005 academic study listed three Orange County cities as being among America's 25 "most conservative," making it one of two counties in the country containing more than one such city

link...​
 
bicycleman said:
I live in a very rural area across from the Great Dismal Swamp. Several years ago a hunter became lost in that swamp. His girl friend called authorities to tell them he had not yet returned from the hunt. A large search party was assembled with police helicopters searching the area. Since I have no neighbors, I never close the shades to my windows. I had gone to bed early and I was awakened around 10 by a bright light in my face. I looked out the window to see a helicopter hovering just above my house with a search light beamed into my window. I flipped them the bird at which moment the helicopter rose and went off toward the swamp a quarter of mile away. Granted, I have woods behind my house, but that pilot knew where the swamp was, and if that hunter was in my back yard, he was no longer lost. They charge people with crimes for being peeping Toms, but this was the police shining spotlights in open windows in the hopes they'd see my wife half naked. Instead they got a very irate husband awakened form a deep sleep. I called the local authorities over the incident, but I got the cursory reply that the helicopter was en route to the swamp and the light just barely brushed by my window. I have been around rotary and fixed wing aircraft over 30 years. I know when one is hovering or not. Somehow, I no longer feel safe around law enforcement.
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That was almost every single night for me when I lived in Phoenix. Of course 10 minutes prior to the copter was gunfire that they were looking for.
 
poweRob said:
Just so you know since you seemed ot have played the partisan card... here is some info about Orange County:

It is known for its affluence and political conservatism – a 2005 academic study listed three Orange County cities as being among America's 25 "most conservative," making it one of two counties in the country containing more than one such city

link...​
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Non Sequitur, what you think is about my input telling it like it is, has NO bearing on whether or not you think there should or should not be drones employed by local law enforcement.

Do you have thoughts on that?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Here is the reality of crime in "the hood"; no witnesses, since the "code of silence" is nearly absolute. "Snitching" (reporting crime to police) is often a DP offense via "street justice". Gang/drug crime is a reality, "witnesses" to most of it are not. What these "eyes in the sky" could provide is video witnesses to a lot of that "mysterious" crime that occurs in plain view of many yet was "seen" by nobody.
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The best way to get rid of drug crime is to legalize drugs. That will put a serious hurt on the gangs.

And, yes, gangs will just do more serious crimes, such as armed robberies and forced prostitution. However, we can then spend the money that we do enforcing drug laws to go after those more serious crimes to prevent armed robberies and forced prostitution.
 
samsmart said:
The best way to get rid of drug crime is to legalize drugs. That will put a serious hurt on the gangs.

And, yes, gangs will just do more serious crimes, such as armed robberies and forced prostitution. However, we can then spend the money that we do enforcing drug laws to go after those more serious crimes to prevent armed robberies and forced prostitution.
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This is why legalization is needed and not decriminalization. Decriminalization merely solves half the problem, and keeps the average user out of jail. It does nothing to address the crime behind the scenes.
 
j-mac said:
Many argue that real political change begins, and is strongest at the local levels. This is one area where there is near unanimity in silence from the loudest voices that screamed that Bush, Republicans, and "NeoCons" were circumventing the right to privacy through its use of warrant-less surveillance of calls entering the US from overseas, from people known to be affiliated with AQ in some way. Now, look at what the tech world in fighting wars has brought us...

Now, for those of you who agree that we should not have drones, and the capabilities that come with technology they have, should we also be railing against Helicopter units within the law enforcement community?

And for those of you who say it is no different that the Helicopter unit, then my question is can the Helo unit see inside your house?

I admit I really don't know how I feel about this.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

The problem I have is that if these local law enforcement officials are going to insist on 24-hour security surveillance, why not just invest in CCTVs in all the major cities, like London in the UK?

The reason why is because someone is getting kickbacks from these drone manufacturers who want to make money by selling them to local law enforcement.
 
j-mac said:
Non Sequitur, what you think is about my input telling it like it is, has NO bearing on whether or not you think there should or should not be drones employed by local law enforcement.

Do you have thoughts on that?
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If being partisan is a non sequitur... why did you instantly go partisan in your OP then?

I'm not too cool with authority taking extra measures to invade privacy.
 
samsmart said:
The best way to get rid of drug crime is to legalize drugs. That will put a serious hurt on the gangs.

And, yes, gangs will just do more serious crimes, such as armed robberies and forced prostitution. However, we can then spend the money that we do enforcing drug laws to go after those more serious crimes to prevent armed robberies and forced prostitution.
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Just what US company will provide the masses with their cocaine, crack, heroin, ecstasy and meth? I see none of these "fixes" included in CA's plan to reduce crime. Perhaps the gov't can provide these recreational drugs directly, since it is extremely doubtful that any private industry could afford the resulting lawsuits from selling these street poisons. ;)
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Just what US company will provide the masses with their cocaine, crack, heroin, ecstasy and meth? I see none of these "fixes" included in CA's plan to reduce crime. Perhaps the gov't can provide these recreational drugs directly, since it is extremely doubtful that any private industry could afford the resulting lawsuits from selling these street poisons. ;)
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Nah, all they have to do is put proper labeling on what such recreational drugs can do to a person's health. And the lobbying interests from these groups will pay legislators enough to work it all out.
 
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