Sheriff's Office wants to fly drones over Orange County skies

[j-mac]

The Orange County Sheriff's Office is experimenting with two surveillance drones that it hopes to turn loose over Metro Orlando skies this summer.Sheriff's spokesman Jeff Williamson would not reveal specific uses for the drones, larger versions of which are known for flying over tribal regions of Afghanistan and Pakistan to drop bombs on suspected terrorists.
But Williamson did say Orange's remote-controlled planes would not be armed. The agency still needs approval from county leaders and the Federal Aviation Administration to use them. The FAA said it does not comment on drone applications.

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"This is unwise and unnecessary. … Sheriffs are supposed to be sheriffs, not the U.S. Army," said Doug Head, a Democratic activist who closely follows Orange County politics.


Drones could soon be flying in Orange County skies - OrlandoSentinel.com

Many argue that real political change begins, and is strongest at the local levels. This is one area where there is near unanimity in silence from the loudest voices that screamed that Bush, Republicans, and "NeoCons" were circumventing the right to privacy through its use of warrant-less surveillance of calls entering the US from overseas, from people known to be affiliated with AQ in some way. Now, look at what the tech world in fighting wars has brought us...

Now, for those of you who agree that we should not have drones, and the capabilities that come with technology they have, should we also be railing against Helicopter units within the law enforcement community?

And for those of you who say it is no different that the Helicopter unit, then my question is can the Helo unit see inside your house?

I admit I really don't know how I feel about this.

Thoughts?

 

[Zariak]

Many argue that real political change begins, and is strongest at the local levels. This is one area where there is near unanimity in silence from the loudest voices that screamed that Bush, Republicans, and "NeoCons" were circumventing the right to privacy through its use of warrant-less surveillance of calls entering the US from overseas, from people known to be affiliated with AQ in some way. Now, look at what the tech world in fighting wars has brought us...

Now, for those of you who agree that we should not have drones, and the capabilities that come with technology they have, should we also be railing against Helicopter units within the law enforcement community?

And for those of you who say it is no different that the Helicopter unit, then my question is can the Helo unit see inside your house?

I admit I really don't know how I feel about this.

Thoughts?

I see no problem with it, with proper regulations. These drones can see inside your house?? I highly doubt it. It's really no different than a police helicopter, I'd say

 

[ttwtt78640]

Here is the reality of crime in "the hood"; no witnesses, since the "code of silence" is nearly absolute. "Snitching" (reporting crime to police) is often a DP offense via "street justice". Gang/drug crime is a reality, "witnesses" to most of it are not. What these "eyes in the sky" could provide is video witnesses to a lot of that "mysterious" crime that occurs in plain view of many yet was "seen" by nobody.

 

[bicycleman]

I live in a very rural area across from the Great Dismal Swamp. Several years ago a hunter became lost in that swamp. His girl friend called authorities to tell them he had not yet returned from the hunt. A large search party was assembled with police helicopters searching the area. Since I have no neighbors, I never close the shades to my windows. I had gone to bed early and I was awakened around 10 by a bright light in my face. I looked out the window to see a helicopter hovering just above my house with a search light beamed into my window. I flipped them the bird at which moment the helicopter rose and went off toward the swamp a quarter of mile away. Granted, I have woods behind my house, but that pilot knew where the swamp was, and if that hunter was in my back yard, he was no longer lost. They charge people with crimes for being peeping Toms, but this was the police shining spotlights in open windows in the hopes they'd see my wife half naked. Instead they got a very irate husband awakened form a deep sleep. I called the local authorities over the incident, but I got the cursory reply that the helicopter was en route to the swamp and the light just barely brushed by my window. I have been around rotary and fixed wing aircraft over 30 years. I know when one is hovering or not. Somehow, I no longer feel safe around law enforcement.

 

[Zariak]

I guess it depends on what type of drones they're using. Some of these drones can get pretty dang small, can't they? I'm betting it'll become something of a game for vandals to try to shoot down these drones as if they were remote control helicopters toys.

 

[radcen]

Drones (and helicopters) are operated by humans. Humans are fallible. Humans will do things they shouldn't be doing, but will because they can. It is not, and will never be, as truly neutral as they want you to think it is.

 

[j-mac]

I see no problem with it, with proper regulations. These drones can see inside your house?? I highly doubt it. It's really no different than a police helicopter, I'd say

"A report published last week by the Congressional Research Service (CRS) shows that our laws are currently unprepared to deal with the privacy implications posed by the use of drones.

snip

Thanks to technology like the Xaver 800 from Camero, which uses electromagnetic radar to construct 3D images of hidden objects, law enforcement and military personnel can now “see” through walls. Combine this with laser radar and thermal imaging techniques, and our homes practically have glass walls, as far as the police are concerned. Thompson estimates that similar technology will eventually be outfitted on drones, allowing them to see through ceilings and walls. The question before the courts will be: Without a warrant, is that reasonable?"

Read more: Drones: 13 things you need to know from Congress's new report | Digital Trends
Follow us: @digitaltrends on Twitter | digitaltrendsftw on Facebook



So YOU don't think so eh?

 

[jamesrage]

Many argue that real political change begins, and is strongest at the local levels. This is one area where there is near unanimity in silence from the loudest voices that screamed that Bush, Republicans, and "NeoCons" were circumventing the right to privacy through its use of warrant-less surveillance of calls entering the US from overseas, from people known to be affiliated with AQ in some way. Now, look at what the tech world in fighting wars has brought us...

Now, for those of you who agree that we should not have drones, and the capabilities that come with technology they have, should we also be railing against Helicopter units within the law enforcement community?

And for those of you who say it is no different that the Helicopter unit, then my question is can the Helo unit see inside your house?

I admit I really don't know how I feel about this.

Thoughts?

Helicopters and drones are two different things. Drones can cheaply be mass produced, fly inside your window without anyone noticing, come in all sort of shapes and sizes. A helicopter can easily be spotted,can't really be cheaply mass produced and has to be manned so there is no danger of thousand or more helicopters flying around the city spying on people. No amount of safety justifies the government being allowed to spy on the people.

 

[Manc Skipper]

"Thompson estimates that similar technology will eventually be outfitted on drones, allowing them to see through ceilings and walls."

How many years do you suppose until your fears become reality?

 

[j-mac]

"Thompson estimates that similar technology will eventually be outfitted on drones, allowing them to see through ceilings and walls."

How many years do you suppose until your fears become reality?

Ahem....Last year...

While driving out of Florida into southern Georgia last year I went through the Dept of Ag. station as all trucks do. They had on sight a truck mounted "BackScan" x ray machine and were pulling trucks randomly through. Then there were reports of this....

Full-Body Scan Technology Deployed In Street-Roving Vans - Forbes


The tech is already present.

 

[bicycleman]

Drones (and helicopters) are operated by humans. Humans are fallible. Humans will do things they shouldn't be doing, but will because they can. It is not, and will never be, as truly neutral as they want you to think it is.

Yep, the same way it is with the TSA agents and how they use the X Ray machines.

 

[Davo The Mavo]

Ahem....Last year...

While driving out of Florida into southern Georgia last year I went through the Dept of Ag. station as all trucks do. They had on sight a truck mounted "BackScan" x ray machine and were pulling trucks randomly through. Then there were reports of this....

Full-Body Scan Technology Deployed In Street-Roving Vans - Forbes


The tech is already present.

I am pretty sure how I feel about this, but admire you not jumping one way or the other until you gathered more information . . . many in the forum could learn from this kind of OP. No matter what, I think I always liked you, and now you show this forum . . . at least . . . one of the reasons why. As I have said many times before . . . we disagree on some stuff . . . and we can get nasty, but we agree on a whole lot of stuff . . . and you are one of my very few "Old" friends from the Internets. I do not have more than 4-people in my real life . . . that I have learned more about than you over the last 10 years (not including everyone else we know together for that time). I believe I have changed a lot through those years . . . but so have you . . . and whether you believe it or not . . . I believe we both changed for the better.

Getting back to the OP after the rare love fest; Like anything else . . . there had better be probable cause. They not only have the ability to look inside walls, they have the ability to listen; This can lead to some very slippery slopes . . . they can look in, listen in, and then set up, with the minimal of police work . . . a valid reason for a search warrant to come in to your home (no record of this silent tech would be made available on Discovery I assure you) . Most of this tech is secret, subsequent to that, all you need is a "Informant" working with the police (after info is illegally obtained) to get anything needed to enter your home.

You don't have to be a drug dealer to worry . . . how about gun dealers? How about leaders of State Militias? How about people who do not agree to the politics of those who control the technology? Slippery Slope is all I got to say, yet some people will say, "If you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to fear." Not me . . . let's make sure if the technology is going to be used . . . it is like Red Light Cameras . . . it's advertised, everyone knows which corner they are on . . . you can challenge it . . . and most important . . . you get to see how the technology was used against you from THEIR very first step in using it. Again, this is my opinion and my opinion only . . . if I had my druthers, I would not want it used at all unless conventional law enforcement justified its use through the normal ways probable cause is obtained. My opinion only and I am aware I am usually wrong.

 

[lpast]

Im not going to comment on whether they should or shouldnt use drones...I will say that we all had better get used to an evolving life...technological advances are being pumped out in record time...Ive stopped being surprised at what they can create and what it can do anymore.
They have long been able to look and listen in your house, that is nothing new and if you dont think they do it for information and not for arrests and courts then your a very trusting individual. Im not talking local police, im talking feds..they have been doing that a long time.
The saying your not guilty till you get caught applies to all walks of life....drones will be used in law enforcement eventually along with a variety of new and more outter worldly developments...
No one thought anything jules verne wrote would ever come to be I mean a submarine was Science Fiction...Im sure theres technological wonders that have been created that the govt hasnt let us know about yet..still testing yanno

 

[j-mac]

I am pretty sure how I feel about this, but admire you not jumping one way or the other until you gathered more information . . . many in the forum could learn from this kind of OP. No matter what, I think I always liked you, and now you show this forum . . . at least . . . one of the reasons why. As I have said many times before . . . we disagree on some stuff . . . and we can get nasty, but we agree on a whole lot of stuff . . . and you are one of my very few "Old" friends from the Internets. I do not have more than 4-people in my real life . . . that I have learned more about than you over the last 10 years (not including everyone else we know together for that time). I believe I have changed a lot through those years . . . but so have you . . . and whether you believe it or not . . . I believe we both changed for the better.

Oh absolutely....A lot of the people I talk to in here I believe (maybe naively) are displaying who they really are in real life, I know I am...And I am privileged to have known you if not only on the web. I believe that sitting out back on the deck or at poolside, with a few cold ones, and some Beam for a couple of shots we'd have a great time.

Getting back to the OP after the rare love fest; Like anything else . . . there had better be probable cause. They not only have the ability to look inside walls, they have the ability to listen; This can lead to some very slippery slopes . . . they can look in, listen in, and then set up, with the minimal of police work . . . a valid reason for a search warrant to come in to your home (no record of this silent tech would be made available on Discovery I assure you) . Most of this tech is secret, subsequent to that, all you need is a "Informant" working with the police (after info is illegally obtained) to get anything needed to enter your home.

Oh yeah, these same trucks that were backscanning our trucks in the ag station, were spotted in neighborhoods. They said they weren't there using the equipment, but what were they doing there?

Getting back to the OP after the rare love fest; Like anything else . . . there had better be probable cause. They not only have the ability to look inside walls, they have the ability to listen; This can lead to some very slippery slopes . . . they can look in, listen in, and then set up, with the minimal of police work . . . a valid reason for a search warrant to come in to your home (no record of this silent tech would be made available on Discovery I assure you) . Most of this tech is secret, subsequent to that, all you need is a "Informant" working with the police (after info is illegally obtained) to get anything needed to enter your home.

I couldn't agree more. It is rather unsettling to say the least...

 

[danarhea]

Many argue that real political change begins, and is strongest at the local levels. This is one area where there is near unanimity in silence from the loudest voices that screamed that Bush, Republicans, and "NeoCons" were circumventing the right to privacy through its use of warrant-less surveillance of calls entering the US from overseas, from people known to be affiliated with AQ in some way. Now, look at what the tech world in fighting wars has brought us...

Now, for those of you who agree that we should not have drones, and the capabilities that come with technology they have, should we also be railing against Helicopter units within the law enforcement community?

And for those of you who say it is no different that the Helicopter unit, then my question is can the Helo unit see inside your house?

I admit I really don't know how I feel about this.

Thoughts?

I have been saying all along that Obama is Bush on steroids, and that, because it's a Democrat in the White House, we are now hearing crickets about an issue that Democrats were extremely vocal about when Bush was in office. That Democrats in California are silent about DOMESTIC use of drones for the purpose of spying on American citizens, they will not have a reason to bitch about it if they lose their Constitutional rights. After all, they allowed it to happen.

Police states don't happen overnight. They creep up on you, if you are not vigilant. Do you think that Hitler just took power in Nazi Germany? No, it took a decade of government "creep", and complacent citizens, who didn't complain, to make it happen.

 

[clownboy]

There's a vast difference between can and should. Not many things make me want to take up arms against my government, this is one of them. I've got nothing at all against citizens bringing the suckers down.

 

[SMTA]

I am pretty sure how I feel about this, but admire you not jumping one way or the other until you gathered more information . . . many in the forum could learn from this kind of OP. No matter what, I think I always liked you, and now you show this forum . . . at least . . . one of the reasons why. As I have said many times before . . . we disagree on some stuff . . . and we can get nasty, but we agree on a whole lot of stuff . . . and you are one of my very few "Old" friends from the Internets. I do not have more than 4-people in my real life . . . that I have learned more about than you over the last 10 years (not including everyone else we know together for that time). I believe I have changed a lot through those years . . . but so have you . . . and whether you believe it or not . . . I believe we both changed for the better.

Getting back to the OP after the rare love fest; Like anything else . . . there had better be probable cause. They not only have the ability to look inside walls, they have the ability to listen; This can lead to some very slippery slopes . . . they can look in, listen in, and then set up, with the minimal of police work . . . a valid reason for a search warrant to come in to your home (no record of this silent tech would be made available on Discovery I assure you) . Most of this tech is secret, subsequent to that, all you need is a "Informant" working with the police (after info is illegally obtained) to get anything needed to enter your home.

You don't have to be a drug dealer to worry . . . how about gun dealers? How about leaders of State Militias? How about people who do not agree to the politics of those who control the technology? Slippery Slope is all I got to say, yet some people will say, "If you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to fear." Not me . . . let's make sure if the technology is going to be used . . . it is like Red Light Cameras . . . it's advertised, everyone knows which corner they are on . . . you can challenge it . . . and most important . . . you get to see how the technology was used against you from THEIR very first step in using it. Again, this is my opinion and my opinion only . . . if I had my druthers, I would not want it used at all unless conventional law enforcement justified its use through the normal ways probable cause is obtained. My opinion only and I am aware I am usually wrong.

Somehow, I have the feeling that the drone snooping will be probable cause in someone's opinion.....Yikes!

 

[specklebang]

Fingerprints, DNA, infrared sensing and ubiquitous cameras are all relatively new technology that has integrated with law enforcement.

Drones are a new, improved method of preventing crime and locating criminals and events. To think they too will not become commonplace is implausible.

All these technologies are intrusive but after they are well established, we go on to worry about "the next big thing". With a population of 300 million, you can't expect the rulers to NOT use all the tools at their disposal to control so many people. Most notions of "liberty" faded away sometime after the wild, wild West was tamed.

 

[DaveFagan]

I'm not in favor of more militarization of local police. I see "creep" from Federal agencies and then coming in to show locals how to use their new toys. Look at all the new and rebuilt jails and sheriff's offices and rotary clip shotguns and flak vests and ad infinitum. With the new toys come agencies looking to gain influence. Prying eyes and privacy. Invasion of privacy and what's next.

 

[clownboy]

Another fine reason we need to do the thing the correct way and add a privacy amendment to the Constitution.

 

[j-mac]

Fingerprints, DNA, infrared sensing and ubiquitous cameras are all relatively new technology that has integrated with law enforcement.

Drones are a new, improved method of preventing crime and locating criminals and events. To think they too will not become commonplace is implausible.

All these technologies are intrusive but after they are well established, we go on to worry about "the next big thing". With a population of 300 million, you can't expect the rulers to NOT use all the tools at their disposal to control so many people. Most notions of "liberty" faded away sometime after the wild, wild West was tamed.

The bolder part of what you write here is exactly what people in this country should instinctively be against, no?

 

[Fisher]

I see no problem with it, with proper regulations. These drones can see inside your house?? I highly doubt it. It's really no different than a police helicopter, I'd say

Except police helicopter pilots have a vested interest in not running into things like other aircraft. I think it is a waste of money that could be used to put some addicts through rehab, but whatever. I don't live there.

 

[radcen]

I don't want this to happen, but at the same time I see it as inevitable... and unfortunately probably necessary. The day will come when a drone will collide with a manned aircraft and people will die. Accident, incompetence, whatever, doesn't matter. Unfortunately, that's what it will take to get the government to realize that limits will need to be enacted and enforced... and even then they'll probably try to dismiss it as a fluke.

 

[specklebang]

They are "instinctively" against these things. Every one of them was objected to and despised as intrusive when it came into use. Fat lot of good that did. I'm "against" a lot of things and "in favor of" a lot of other things and so far. even MY influence has been very limited since..... well, let me give you an example.

My cats think it is morally wrong of me to deprive them of access to the treat containers. It's their food and they feel they should be the ones to decide when and if they want to eat them.

Tough titty-kitty. I'm their ruler. I'm their owner. I make the rules, not them. If you think its any different for you and your government...I think you're wrong and that they will do as they prefer, not as you prefer.

The bolder part of what you write here is exactly what people in this country should instinctively be against, no?

 

[Fisher]

I'd rather have the police flying them than the zoning people. I guarantee you, if they could, my local zoning Nazis would rent some drones.