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Thread: Jerry Brown: California's deficit is gone

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    Re: Jerry Brown: California's deficit is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by gingern44 View Post
    And when Clinton left office we were in recession.
    After the longest period of uninterrupted economic growth in US history; and the recession was one of the shortest and shallowest.

    Do you really want to compare Clinton's economic record with Bush's? BWHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

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    Re: Jerry Brown: California's deficit is gone

    b
    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    After the longest period of uninterrupted economic growth in US history; and the recession was one of the shortest and shallowest.

    Do you really want to compare Clinton's economic record with Bush's? BWHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
    I'm not silly enough to give any president credit for the economy, pro or con. The Clinton adm had the dotcom bubble and the beginnings of a housing bubble. Bush jr started with a recession and 911. Apples and oranges. I was merely pointing out that concentrating only on who was president in any given period is childish at best. If you are so fond of the Clinton era you should have been voting repub for Senate. After all the Clinton era "proves" that a repub controlled congress ensures a healthy economy.

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    Re: Jerry Brown: California's deficit is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by gingern44 View Post
    b

    I'm not silly enough to give any president credit for the economy, pro or con. The Clinton adm had the dotcom bubble and the beginnings of a housing bubble. Bush jr started with a recession and 911. Apples and oranges. I was merely pointing out that concentrating only on who was president in any given period is childish at best. If you are so fond of the Clinton era you should have been voting repub for Senate. After all the Clinton era "proves" that a repub controlled congress ensures a healthy economy.
    What laws did the " repub controlled congress "pass that helped insure a healthy economy in your opinion?
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Jerry Brown: California's deficit is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by gingern44 View Post
    b

    I'm not silly enough to give any president credit for the economy, pro or con. The Clinton adm had the dotcom bubble and the beginnings of a housing bubble. Bush jr started with a recession and 911. Apples and oranges. I was merely pointing out that concentrating only on who was president in any given period is childish at best. If you are so fond of the Clinton era you should have been voting repub for Senate. After all the Clinton era "proves" that a repub controlled congress ensures a healthy economy.
    I think rather it proves that raising taxes on the rich strengthens economic growth for a variety of well researched reasons.

    While presidents don't cause or avert recessions, economic policies certainly contribute to these results. And historic shows conservative economic policies of cutting taxes on the rich and deregulation leads inevitably to recessions.

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    Re: Jerry Brown: California's deficit is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Whipsnade View Post
    What laws did the " repub controlled congress "pass that helped insure a healthy economy in your opinion?
    They didn't any more than Clinton did, that's my point. The growth of the 90s was a result of the dotcom bubble and rising real estate values. Clinton can claim some credit for inflating real estate prices but dotcom was the real driver. I've often asked Clinton devotees if they could point to what he specifically did to create such economic growth. I've yet to receive an answer. The economy is its own animal and trying to lay credit or blame on presidents is silly.

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    Re: Jerry Brown: California's deficit is gone

    Perhaps Brown's folks jumped the gun on the premise of their projections:

    But budget experts say the tax hikes on the rich have yet to really take effect. While the tax rate of up to 13.3 percent on top earners is retroactive to January 1, the revenues won't really start coming in until sometime early in 2013 because of delayed withholding.

    The big windfall, experts say, came largely from top earners shifting their income or asset sales from 2013 to the fourth quarter of 2012 to avoid the federal tax increase. That's likely to lead to a big drop off early in 2013.
    Tax on Rich Didn't Cause California's Deficit Magic

    Seems much more plausable than anything else I've read...
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: Jerry Brown: California's deficit is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by gingern44 View Post
    They didn't any more than Clinton did, that's my point. The growth of the 90s was a result of the dotcom bubble and rising real estate values. Clinton can claim some credit for inflating real estate prices but dotcom was the real driver. I've often asked Clinton devotees if they could point to what he specifically did to create such economic growth. I've yet to receive an answer. The economy is its own animal and trying to lay credit or blame on presidents is silly.
    Yet in post #199 you laid a none existent recession at BUBBAs feet with these words.” And when Clinton left office we were in recession. “SAD.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Jerry Brown: California's deficit is gone

    [QUOTE=head of joaquin;1061356453]
    I think rather it proves that raising taxes on the rich strengthens economic growth for a variety of well researched reasons.
    Such blanket statements are nonsense. The Clinton tax increases weren't large enough to have some magical massive impact on the entire economy. Besides Clinton signed tax increases in 93 then tax cuts in 97. His second term had better job growth, barely, but had much higher wage growth and govt revenue growth.

    While presidents don't cause or avert recessions, economic policies certainly contribute to these results.
    That I agree with. In general there are a limited number of things any president can do to help the economy, unfortunately they seem to have an unlimited ability to screw things up. Presidents can negatively impact the economy from many different angles other than economic policy.

    And historic shows conservative economic policies of cutting taxes on the rich and deregulation leads inevitably to recessions.
    Again blanket statement. Clinton signed a cut in cap gains from 28% to 20% in 97. The following years outperformed the previous. He also signed welfare reform, tariff reductions, raised the exemption on the inheritance tax and kept fed spending growth to 3%, with, I would argue, the help of a repub congress. None of this had nearly as large an impact on the 90s as the dotcom bubble and rising real estate values had.

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    Re: Jerry Brown: California's deficit is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Whipsnade View Post
    Yet in post #199 you laid a none existent recession at BUBBAs feet with these words.” And when Clinton left office we were in recession. “SAD.
    I did make a mistake. The 2001 recession started about a month and a half after Bush took office. Which of course will be proof to some that repub presidents lead to recession. Again I don't lay that recession at Bush or Clinton's feet it was the bursting of the dotcom bubble.

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    Re: Jerry Brown: California's deficit is gone

    [QUOTE=gingern44;1061356747]
    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post

    Such blanket statements are nonsense. The Clinton tax increases weren't large enough to have some magical massive impact on the entire economy. Besides Clinton signed tax increases in 93 then tax cuts in 97. His second term had better job growth, barely, but had much higher wage growth and govt revenue growth.



    That I agree with. In general there are a limited number of things any president can do to help the economy, unfortunately they seem to have an unlimited ability to screw things up. Presidents can negatively impact the economy from many different angles other than economic policy.



    Again blanket statement. Clinton signed a cut in cap gains from 28% to 20% in 97. The following years outperformed the previous. He also signed welfare reform, tariff reductions, raised the exemption on the inheritance tax and kept fed spending growth to 3%, with, I would argue, the help of a repub congress. None of this had nearly as large an impact on the 90s as the dotcom bubble and rising real estate values had.


    You say that “The Clinton tax increases weren't large enough to have some magical massive impact on the entire economy “Better tell that to Newt, he thought differently in 1993, when he said,“ The tax increase will kill jobs and lead to a recession, and the recession will force people out of work and onto unemployment, and actually increase the deficit.“ Actually during Clinton's second term unemployment dropped from about 5% to about 4%, where’s his first term it dropped from 7.33 to 5%.

    Notice where the tax cuts are on this BLS graph? The Dot Com bubble was the years of 1997 – 2000.Check out the graph and tell me how a bubble that stetted in 1997 would have an effect on the Clinton boom. I only see about a 1% kick in the employment rate. Maybe a bit more.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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