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Thread: Biden, NRA Clash over New Gun Control Proposals......

  1. #41
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    Re: Biden, NRA Clash over New Gun Control Proposals......

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    No, you probably didn't think.

    It's simply not worth the effort trying to explain it to you. The point with Bush is that a terrible and very successful precedent was established and is well documented. It will be refined and used again and again by future presidents and it will often subvert or even circumvent the law and the Constitution. I am fairly certain we are seeing that now regarding the media driven hysteria over gun control.

    If the government wants your guns they cannot possibly seize them without public support and then with public support they will accomplish gun seizure incrementally. It is completely and entirely possible for the government to create public support that would enable the federal government to achieve its objective. I believe that effort is already in place and working.

    You seem hell bent to make the use of weapons grade propaganda on the citizens of the United States a partisan issue. It most certainly is not.
    Nah that would just be an assumption upon your part especially with that thinking part. As when one is already Leading the Way and has surpassed that point. This does not change anything that was said about the media. Nor the political strategy that was put in play. Which evidently you are agreeing with me on that point

    Perhaps of the removal of the Construct of Bush and looking back with the media before that time would enlighten that point.

    But then again you seem to focus much more on Bush when really one could have looked at Nixon. Wherein the precedent was set and looked to achieve upon. By the Media!

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    Re: Biden, NRA Clash over New Gun Control Proposals......

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    Exactly! The groundswell of public support, created through the use of propaganda, by the Bush administration, was overwhelming. Congress could not ignore it, but many in Congress also suspected that the public was being shucked and jived. And of course, we now know that an intricate and well worked system of deception was in fact in place and was used by the Bush administration. The beauty of it is that it was and is largely hidden in plain sight. Anyone can read and study and learn about it. Few do or will.
    A major reason that I thought Obama a better choice than Hillary was that in the face of that “shuck and jive” driven public sentiment she cowered and he didn’t.

    Which you must find sort of ironic, huh?

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    Re: Biden, NRA Clash over New Gun Control Proposals......

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Sketching out details of the plan Thursday, Vice President Joe Biden said he would give President Barack Obama a set of recommendations by next Tuesday. The NRA, one of the pro-gun groups that met with Biden during the day, rejected the effort to limit ammunition and dug in on its opposition to an assault weapons ban, which Obama has previously said he will propose to Congress.



    "The vice president made it clear, made it explicitly clear, that the president had already made up his mind on those issues," NRA president David Keene said following the meeting. "We made it clear that we disagree

    Opposition from the well-funded and politically powerful NRA underscores the challenges that await the White House if it seeks congressional approval for limiting guns and ammunition. Obama can use his executive powers to act alone on some gun measures, but his options on the proposals opposed by the NRA are limited without Congress' cooperation. with them."White House officials said the vice president didn't expect to win over the NRA and other gun groups on those key issues. But the administration was hoping to soften their opposition in order to rally support from pro-gun lawmakers on Capitol Hill.

    Biden also talked about holes in NICS the National Instant Criminal Background Check System when states don't relay information to the database used by dealers to check purchasers. Advocates blame Congress for not fully funding a law that provides money to help states send records to the database.

    For example, advocates say Obama could order the Justice Department to prosecute more people flagged by background checks as prohibited purchasers when they try to buy guns; expand a rule that requires dealers to notify the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives when someone tries to buy multiple semiautomatic rifles, a program now confined to Mexico border states, and increase enforcement actions at gun shows.

    The group Mayors Against Illegal Guns has sent the White House 40 steps it says would save lives and dramatically improve enforcement of existing laws without any action by Congress.

    The president hopes to announce his administration's next steps to tackle gun violence shortly after he is sworn in for a second term. He has pledged to push for new measures in his State of the Union address.

    Biden, NRA clash over new gun control proposals - Yahoo! News
    Associated Press 6 mins ago Jan 102013<<<<<More here, way more


    Looks Like Obama is going to push the issue anyways with his State of the Union. Biden admits this is not going anywhere but that is the downplay. As they are going to try and push gun legislation. Anyone notice the part about how Obama could use some EP on some measures? Thoughts?
    On the assault weapons ban, I am kind of torn, and have actually argued both sides on that issue. At this time, I am leaning against the ban. However, for a 3 day waiting period and background checks, I am fully in favor of that. Do you really want someone who was convicted of murder getting a gun after he gets out of prison? Do you want the insane getting a gun? I don't. I want the background check. Will it stop them from getting a gun? Probably not, if they want one badly enough, but it will make it ILLEGAL for them to own one. I also think guys like this, who have actually threatened to kill people, have no business owning a gun:

    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: Biden, NRA Clash over New Gun Control Proposals......

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
    A major reason that I thought Obama a better choice than Hillary was that in the face of that “shuck and jive” driven public sentiment she cowered and he didn’t.

    Which you must find sort of ironic, huh?
    I do.

    Between Obama and Hillary, I'd pick Obama every time. But I didn't vote for Obama or Romulan, for that matter.










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    Re: Biden, NRA Clash over New Gun Control Proposals......

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    I prefer competance over incompetance which is all the other side has to offer. Never again.
    That's hilarious considering the thread topic includes the ramblings of Joe Biden.

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    Re: Biden, NRA Clash over New Gun Control Proposals......

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    On the assault weapons ban, I am kind of torn, and have actually argued both sides on that issue. At this time, I am leaning against the ban. However, for a 3 day waiting period and background checks, I am fully in favor of that. Do you really want someone who was convicted of murder getting a gun after he gets out of prison? Do you want the insane getting a gun? I don't. I want the background check. Will it stop them from getting a gun? Probably not, if they want one badly enough, but it will make it ILLEGAL for them to own one.
    Another option, re-classify them to move them up the scale that already exists to the same slot as full automatic weapons. I have been lead to believe, and have come across no evidence contrary, that that system of “dealer” requirements and attendant laws have largely neutralized the day-to-day risk to the public. It does add some extra work/expense for those that wish to pursue the hobby. My world is plenty big enough for that, beats an outright F U ban.
    I also think guys like this, who have actually threatened to kill people, have no business owning a gun:
    <snip>
    There is that.

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    Re: Biden, NRA Clash over New Gun Control Proposals......

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    On the assault weapons ban, I am kind of torn, and have actually argued both sides on that issue. At this time, I am leaning against the ban. However, for a 3 day waiting period and background checks, I am fully in favor of that. Do you really want someone who was convicted of murder getting a gun after he gets out of prison? Do you want the insane getting a gun? I don't. I want the background check. Will it stop them from getting a gun? Probably not, if they want one badly enough, but it will make it ILLEGAL for them to own one. I also think guys like this, who have actually threatened to kill people, have no business owning a gun:
    Well, you can tear this also:

    Show me where a waiting period has stopped any crime.

    Background checks already exist for every purchase from an FFL - show me where this has stopped any crimes.
    Show me any 'insane' label that currently exists that can be used across the population faifly.

    Convicted murders cannot legally own any guns, period. Enforce laws now on the books.

    Sheesh.
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    Re: Biden, NRA Clash over New Gun Control Proposals......

    The FBI said it recorded 2.78 million background checks during the month, surpassing the mark set in November of 2.01 million checks - about a 39 percent rise.

    The latest monthly figure was up 49 percent over December 2011, when the FBI performed a then-record 1.86 million checks.

    Consumer demand for guns appears to have accounted for the uptick in activity. There were no changes in FBI background check procedures that would have affected the December numbers, FBI spokesman Stephen Fischer said.

    FBI checks for all of 2012 totaled 19.6 million, an annual record and an increase of 19 percent over 2011.

    Even as gun purchases rise, the share of U.S. households with a gun has been falling for decades, from 54 percent in 1977 to 32 percent in 2010, according to the University of Chicago's General Social Survey.....snip~


    According to the FBI background checks increased by 39%.....according to the study By the University of Chicago they are saying less people are owning a Gun. So if less people have bought weapons then what can they say about background checks increasing with such a high percentage as is?

  9. #49
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    Re: Biden, NRA Clash over New Gun Control Proposals......

    Quote Originally Posted by SMTA View Post
    Show me where a waiting period has stopped any crime.

    Background checks already exist for every purchase from an FFL - show me where this has stopped any crimes.
    Show me any 'insane' label that currently exists that can be used across the population faifly.

    Convicted murders cannot legally own any guns, period. Enforce laws now on the books.

    Sheesh.
    You are asking rational folks to prove a negative. Let's turn it around, and you show me where a ban of any kind has stopped any crime. I bet you can't do it either.

    Which of the latest massacres were committed by convicted murderers? Now can we get back to the thread topic?
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
    - Abraham Lincoln

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    Re: Biden, NRA Clash over New Gun Control Proposals......

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    You are asking rational folks to prove a negative. Let's turn it around, and you show me where a ban of any kind has stopped any crime. I bet you can't do it either.

    Which of the latest massacres were committed by convicted murderers? Now can we get back to the thread topic?
    Your post makes no sense at all.
    Greatness lies not in being strong, but in the right use of strength - Henry Ward Beecher
    Baby sister, I was born game and I intend to go out that way - Rooster Cogburn

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