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Thread: Marines tell spouses clubs to admit same-sex spouses Read more: http://www.foxnews.

  1. #111
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    Re: Marines tell spouses clubs to admit same-sex spouses Read more: http://www.foxne

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    nothign preachy about just stating the facts that discrimination is losing and equality is winning

    thats always a good thing, glad you could dry your eyes long enough to reply though.
    Your feelings don't = facts

    All you ever do on these forums is spam it with preachy Gay Thumper threads

    It's getting old fast

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    Re: Marines tell spouses clubs to admit same-sex spouses Read more: http://www.foxne

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Obama broke the economy and he eats dog

    Get your facts straight
    Funny.


  3. #113
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    Re: Marines tell spouses clubs to admit same-sex spouses Read more: http://www.foxne

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    I never claimed or even asserted that you couldn't debate the issue - what I CLEARLY said/implied is that the government has ZERO right forcing others to do as they see fit...

    That isn't an opinion on my behalf - it's a Goddamn fact - a fact which in this situation violates the First Amendment...
    You ever going to explain your assertions or just keep making them? I've explained my reasoning / logic, where is yours?

  4. #114
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    Re: Marines tell spouses clubs to admit same-sex spouses Read more: http://www.foxne

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I get that you accuse it of being political in nature (for decent reason), but do we actually have widespread evidence that those reports were enormously flawed with what they were reporting?
    Once again, it's not my opinion but the nature of military command and specifically the DOD which is a political machine. Their reporting is always going to be political in nature. Even IF the figures contained in a report are dead on accurate, the conclusions are going to be politically biased to the current political environment.

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    Re: Marines tell spouses clubs to admit same-sex spouses Read more: http://www.foxne

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Once again, it's not my opinion but the nature of military command and specifically the DOD which is a political machine. Their reporting is always going to be political in nature. Even IF the figures contained in a report are dead on accurate, the conclusions are going to be politically biased to the current political environment.
    I understand that their point of view is more political and much more susceptible to the orientation of an administration's orientation.

    But what I am asking is (with what we currently know through empirical research): did the DOD and RAND come to the wrong conclusion about the impact assessment?
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Marines tell spouses clubs to admit same-sex spouses Read more: http://www.foxne

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    1.)Your feelings don't = facts
    2.)All you ever do on these forums is spam it with preachy Gay Thumper threads
    3.) It's getting old fast
    1.) you are 100% correct, good thing we factually arent talking about my feelings
    2.) you are free to have this opinion but it doesnt mean anything to honest respected posters around here
    3.) aww poor baby well if you dont like the posts the solution is simply after you dry your eyes dont post in them or when you do plan on getting your posts destroyed like they all have in the past by many many many posters and facts.

    do you ever post anything but failed insults, lies, fantasy and strawmen? anything
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
    Make America Great Again!
    Pro-Equal Rights / Pro-Gun Rights / Pro-Human Rights / Pro-Choice

  7. #117
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    Re: Marines tell spouses clubs to admit same-sex spouses Read more: http://www.foxne

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I understand that their point of view is more political and much more susceptible to the orientation of an administration's orientation.

    But what I am asking is (with what we currently know through empirical research): did the DOD and RAND come to the wrong conclusion about the impact assessment?
    The answer to your question is that the conclusions they came to are wholly political. Whether they are wrong is hard to judge since that is a requirement of DOD reporting (public reports). Do I believe that allowing openly gay folks to serve negatively affects unit cohesion, the answer is yes. Do I believe gay folks should be allowed to serve, also yes.

    I know this sets me up for, well if one negatively affects unit cohesion then why not allow the other even if it too negatively affects unit cohesion. I have Chirchill's answer to that, it's a matter of necessity and degree.

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    Re: Marines tell spouses clubs to admit same-sex spouses Read more: http://www.foxne

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    question........are these gatherings ever in a home of a person.

    from what it appears to be......it is association in question.......

    anyone who has joined the military knows, when you join, you have no rights anymore...i know its hard to believe.....but you receive the UCMJ, for your rights.
    By George, I think you've got it.

    Under the UCMJ, when your serving in the U.S. military, you no longer have any Constitutional Rights. Your ass belongs to the branch of service your serving in and the laws you live by are the Uniform Military Code of Justice.

    Why do you suppose that's the way it's suppose to be ? Could it be from thousands of years of lessons learned from armies and navies fighting wars ? I believe so.

    So why are outside agitators trying to use the military for social engineering experimentation and are ignoring lessons learned and are in the process of changing the culture, customs, traditions and even the regulations and the UCMJ ?

    Right out of Joseph Stalins playbook when Barack Obama said he plans to change the face of the American military. "To redefine the purpose and character of the military." It was what Stalin did when he politicized the Soviet military during the 1920's/30's..

    For the first time in America's history, the uniform military is being politicized, it even has political officers today just as the Soviet army had, they are known as diversity officers today.

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    Re: Marines tell spouses clubs to admit same-sex spouses Read more: http://www.foxne

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    The answer to your question is that the conclusions they came to are wholly political. Whether they are wrong is hard to judge since that is a requirement of DOD reporting (public reports). Do I believe that allowing openly gay folks to serve negatively affects unit cohesion, the answer is yes. Do I believe gay folks should be allowed to serve, also yes.

    I know this sets me up for, well if one negatively affects unit cohesion then why not allow the other even if it too negatively affects unit cohesion. I have Chirchill's answer to that, it's a matter of necessity and degree.
    Until we have solid data showing problems with the policy, we may as well just argue ideology, which is fine. We argue that it does good while it allows more people to openly serve their country. Your side argues one of upheaval to cohesion.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  10. #120
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    Re: Marines tell spouses clubs to admit same-sex spouses Read more: http://www.foxne

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    question........are these gatherings ever in a home of a person.
    "Ever" is a long time.

    But you may have missed this in my previous post: " On the other hand they may organize a BBQ at an individual home - which may be on base or off.

    The issue isn't about whether the club "ever" holds an event at a volunteers home, the issue is about commands providing official recognition and command sponsorship to a Spouse Club which excludes spouses.

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    from what it appears to be......it is association in question.......
    The "club" does not mandate that Family "A" or "B" MUST hold an even in a home. Nope not done. Someone, in such a situation, may volunteer to hold such an even. If another person doesn't want a homosexual to attend and event in their home, or a black, or a Jew - they just don't volunteer their home. If they don't want to participate in command spoored events at on-base location or at other homes - no one makes them attend, they are free no to show up.

    There is no "association in question", if you don't want to associate - don't go. Attendance is not mandatory, it's voluntary. If you don't want to join the club don't, people are free to start their own private clubs and invite whomever they wish, they just can't be command sponsored.

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    anyone who has joined the military knows, when you join, you have no rights anymore...i know its hard to believe.....but you receive the UCMJ, for your rights.
    I spent 20-years, 66 days, and about 16 hours on active duty before transferring to the Fleet Reserve, as someone that did join the military - You are not in a status where "you have no rights anymore".

    Your rights may be curtailed, for example, free speech that is prejudicial to good order and discipline may be restricted. You are free to go to a Klan rally if you want in civilian clothes, you can attend political fund raisers and events for candidates in civilian clothes. You can even speak at such events. You may not though wear your uniform at such events or project yourself as a member of the military or to be acting under military authority. Evey base I was ever stationed at, I could own firearms. When I lived in base housing I had to register them with security, when I lived in the barracks they were stored in the armory. If I had been arrested for a crime (which of course I wasn't) I still had a right to counsel, the right of non-incrimination, the right to a speedy trial, the right to a day in court, the right to question my accuser, and the right to challenge a conviction on appeal. Military courts are different then civilian courts, that does not mean that rights do not exist.

    Curtailed or function differently does not mean that you have no rights.


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    Last edited by WorldWatcher; 09-17-13 at 08:38 PM.

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