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Thread: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standard

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Nope. Don't even object to.
    I'm certain I saw you post objections to civilians owning AR-15 rifles with 30 round magazines. You seem rather inconsistent. I blame your irrational fear of things you don't understand.
    Some apes are more equal...

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Ok, So this was bugging me...I went back and re-read every post in this thread by Boo Radley. I did this not because I am someone who likes to torture themselves, but because Boo has been using an argument that he has provided "objective stats" when in fact he has provided NOTHING. We are flailing around here combating Boo, in most cases only to have him say over, and over that 'he did not say that'..... I suspect he is getting some real belly laughs out of all of that. Well, no more.

    I propose that at least in this thread that Boo not be responded to any further until he provides not only the studies he is citing, but also ceases the highly annoying tactic of baiting the posters he is talking with.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You may run into a very narrow circle. City folk in general want more guns laws, and rural folk in general don't.

    The different experiences people in urban and rural communities have with guns and gun culture is one big reason why Washington has a difficult time getting on the same page when it comes to gun-control legislation.

    Politics Counts: Urban-Rural Split on Gun Laws - Washington Wire - WSJ

    David: This isnít only an argument about politeness. The self-righteousness on both sides of the gun issue has totally ruined the prospects for good policy making. The gun control debate is no longer about guns. Itís a culture war between urbanites and rural people.

    What We Talk About When We Talk About Guns - NYTimes.com
    Your wrong again j, I made a claim, and supported it here.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ok, So this was bugging me...I went back and re-read every post in this thread by Boo Radley. I did this not because I am someone who likes to torture themselves, but because Boo has been using an argument that he has provided "objective stats" when in fact he has provided NOTHING. We are flailing around here combating Boo, in most cases only to have him say over, and over that 'he did not say that'..... I suspect he is getting some real belly laughs out of all of that. Well, no more.

    I propose that at least in this thread that Boo not be responded to any further until he provides not only the studies he is citing, but also ceases the highly annoying tactic of baiting the posters he is talking with.

    This is also the third time I've linked this:

    National Research Council, 2004: The initial model specification, when extended to new data, does not show evidence that passage of right-to-carry laws reduces crime. The estimated effects are highly sensitive to seemingly minor changes in the model specification and control variables. No link between right-to-carry laws and changes in crime is apparent in the raw data, even in the initial sample; it is only once numerous covariates are included that the negative results in the early data emerge. While the trend models show a reduction in the crime growth rate following the adoption of right-to-carry laws, these trend reductions occur long after law adoption, casting serious doubt on the proposition that the trend models estimated in the literature reflect effects of the law change. Finally, some of the point estimates are imprecise. Thus, the committee concludes that with the current evidence it is not possible to determine that there is a causal link between the passage of right-to-carry laws and crime rates.
    FactCheck.org : Gun Rhetoric vs. Gun Facts

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I propose that at least in this thread that Boo not be responded to any further until he provides not only the studies he is citing, but also ceases the highly annoying tactic of baiting the posters he is talking with.
    Good plan. Feeding the trolls is unproductive.
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
    - Abraham Lincoln

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    Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standard

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Your wrong again j, I made a claim, and supported it here.
    Hahahaha!!! I wish I caught that sooner.... Your big "objective" sources are from blogs that take the results of studies, focusing on the 1 area where you have a legitimate point...

    So, boo is right after all... All of the poorest Americans, those most likely to be impacted by gang gun violence are the ONLY GROUP in the study that supported gun control over gun rights... And even then it was only a 10% margin.
    Thanks for exposing your bias and intellectual integrity of argument.

    What's this other one, oh another blog, actually an interview...

    A gun control person interviewing someone pretending to be pro-gun rights, nice an objective...

    Oh, and they raise a study... And what is this big proof : "inconclusive".

    I don't know how they performed the studies, but it seems as though these are reviews of other studies... Wanted to dig deeper, but not gonna subscribe to the journal...

    Why didn't they go to the source data??? Could it be because the real data (FBI federal crime stats) shows the case much more conclusively?? Could it be that the numbers show this case so strongly that it would remove any legs they hoped to stand on.

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    Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standard

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    This is also the third time I've linked this:

    National Research Council, 2004: The initial model specification, when extended to new data, does not show evidence that passage of right-to-carry laws reduces crime. The estimated effects are highly sensitive to seemingly minor changes in the model specification and control variables. No link between right-to-carry laws and changes in crime is apparent in the raw data, even in the initial sample; it is only once numerous covariates are included that the negative results in the early data emerge. While the trend models show a reduction in the crime growth rate following the adoption of right-to-carry laws, these trend reductions occur long after law adoption, casting serious doubt on the proposition that the trend models estimated in the literature reflect effects of the law change. Finally, some of the point estimates are imprecise. Thus, the committee concludes that with the current evidence it is not possible to determine that there is a causal link between the passage of right-to-carry laws and crime rates.
    FactCheck.org : Gun Rhetoric vs. Gun Facts
    Fact check... Lol, more "unbiased" information.

    Ridiculous...

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Common sense from an email currently making the rounds:

    "The Gun Is Civilization"
    by Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

    Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force.

    If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories,
    without exception.

    Reason or force, that's it.

    In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion.

    Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some. When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.

    The gun is the only personal weapon that puts--
    * a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger,
    * a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger,
    * and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunken guys with baseball bats.

    The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

    There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's
    potential marks are armed.

    People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society.

    A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

    Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.

    People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force, watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst.

    The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker.

    If both are armed, the field is level.

    The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    It removes force from the equation... and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

    By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret.)


    So, the greatest civilization is one where all citizens are equally armed and can only be persuaded, never forced.
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
    - Abraham Lincoln

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    Good plan. Feeding the trolls is unproductive.
    Its a rather common feature from several of the anti gun posters to refuse to directly support gun bans but to constantly question the sanity of, insinuate paranoia and claim that it is no rational to own guns

    they know if they come out and directly demand gun bans they get flayed. so they use this evasive oblique attack on gun owners



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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Its a rather common feature from several of the anti gun posters to refuse to directly support gun bans but to constantly question the sanity of, insinuate paranoia and claim that it is no rational to own guns

    they know if they come out and directly demand gun bans they get flayed. so they use this evasive oblique attack on gun owners
    Your seething indictment and attack on your enemies who oppose your extreme position is fatally flawed in many ways.

    Let us look at your charges against them all in one sentence no less.

    several of the anti gun posters to refuse to directly support gun bans but to constantly question the sanity of
    Who is this specifically Turtle? Who is questioning the sanity of people just because they own guns? I have no doubt that people with mental problems own guns. I also have no doubt that the vast vast majority of gun owners are mentally healthy people. Who is saying what you claim here?

    insinuate paranoia
    This is a totally and completely different charge. Yes, there is rampant paranloia among the right on this issue to that point that you yourself Turtle have openly discussed killing government officials should you lose the public policy debate on this issue . Others seems to be permanently camped on the slippery slope always worried about the possiblity of a nightmare future which exists in their own paranoid minds.

    Paranoia clearly exists among many on this issue on the far right.

    and claim that it is no rational to own guns
    Who is making that claim? Name names... cite posts ... give us their words. Owning a firearm is perfectly rational for the vast vast majority of people who do own one for protection, sporting, collecting, hunting or other legal purposes. Who is saying this what you claim they are saying?

    It seems that not only are you creating a strawman to attack, but you have emptied much of the barn with this wide attack without foundation or substance.



    , insinuate paranoia and claim that it is no rational to own guns
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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