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Thread: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standard

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    The problem with this argument is a couple of logical fallacies, one of which being appeal to authority. No one disagrees that a law enforcement officer faces challenges that most suburban, middle class citizenry don't. One factor is that LEO's are tasked with putting themselves in 'high risk' situations, in order to do their jobs. However, with the expansion of the inner cities migrating outward into the suburbs along with it comes the crime associated with the inner cities. Police are often out manned, and under equipped to handle the increase in crime, and often warn that Police are not there to actually prevent crime from happening, but rather to investigate, and bring to justice after the incident the perpetrator of said crime. It is for that reason that we have the right, not granted by man, but inherent to protect ourselves, our families, and our property. If you think you can do that without a firearm, more power to you. But the argument that I, a legal citizen, that follow's the law, and doesn't commit crime shouldn't have a gun because you don't think I need it, is laughable, and should be ignored.
    First, I've made no appeal to authority. I have speaking to TD who disputes what you just said about the police and the person who brought up knowing police. I merely noted I did as well. I then noted actual objective numbers.

    Nor do I argue you can't have a gun. I have repeated this many times. The debate is can the government restrict which guns.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress
    So you support wasting crisises? Me, I prefer to learn from them, make changes needed, and improve.
    Well, as Rhambo once said, "never let a crisis go to waste..." The problem with progressives is that if no crisis exist then they manufacture one.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Which still has nothing to do with what I said or the gun control debate for that matter. Inane references to things that have nothing to do with the topic are not really relevant.
    Your post was about wasting a tragedy or crisis, so 30 school children is a tragedy but over 1 million per year is acceptable, please give us your definition for crisis or tragedies.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    First, I've made no appeal to authority.

    because the argument from authority is an inductive-reasoning argument — wherein is implied that the truth of the conclusion cannot be guaranteed by the truth of the premises — it also is fallacious to assert that the conclusion must be true.[2] Such a determinative assertion is a logical non sequitur, because, although the inductive argument might have merit — either probabilistic or statistical — the conclusion does not follow unconditionally, in the sense of being logically necessary.[4][5]

    Argument from authority - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Now when you assert:

    "Btw, I also ave friends in law enforcement. Work with a fellow who trains police officers in self defense, and we work together in this program. I've talked to a lot f police officers local and nationally, and I've even posted posted a few things you can find on a search. They largely up port what I'm saying, as do the objective numbers I mentioned above."

    Clearly that fits the definition of the fallacy.

    I have speaking to TD who disputes what you just said about the police and the person who brought up knowing police.
    To which you attempted to trump his own appeal to authority with one of your own...Doesn't make it any less a fallacy.

    I merely noted I did as well.
    Which was wrong.

    I then noted actual objective numbers.
    Actually, you only said that you had provided objective numbers....IRRC, those numbers you provided from a controversial study were in dispute themselves, so instead of making your case you just continued to say "nuh uh" and take on face value that the stats were correct, and objective. A dishonest tactic BTW.

    Nor do I argue you can't have a gun.
    Only because you have NO power to make such a reality. Based on your stated reasoning I think that any reasonable person would have to conclude that you would argue that if you had the power to make such a reality.

    I have repeated this many times.
    If you repeat a lie often enough it still does not become a fact, although you may like to think differently.

    The debate is can the government restrict which guns.
    Yes, and can you lay out to me what you think the term "shall not infringe" means in legal terms?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No fear and hyperbole.

    If you remove suicide and killing friends and family (accidentally or otherwise) citizens use guns even less, face even less gun need situations, and have no obligation to tackle any if the dangerous situations police do.
    that's crap. every time a cop draws his weapon its documented. Many times with non leo's there are no reports

    and you still ignore the initiator-non-initiator difference

    why don't you just come out and say what we all know you believe

    you think honest law abiding citizens cannot be trusted with the same self defensive weapons we give civilian police officers



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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    Your post was about wasting a tragedy or crisis, so 30 school children is a tragedy but over 1 million per year is acceptable, please give us your definition for crisis or tragedies.
    And now you are just putting words in my mouth. Get back to me if you are ever interested in honest debate.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    And now you are just putting words in my mouth. Get back to me if you are ever interested in honest debate.

    Leaving the classic dodge aside, could you answer the question?

    Please lay out the difference in your mind between a "crisis" and a "tragedy"....
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Now when you assert:

    "Btw, I also ave friends in law enforcement. Work with a fellow who trains police officers in self defense, and we work together in this program. I've talked to a lot f police officers local and nationally, and I've even posted posted a few things you can find on a search. They largely up port what I'm saying, as do the objective numbers I mentioned above."

    Clearly that fits the definition of the fallacy.



    To which you attempted to trump his own appeal to authority with one of your own...Doesn't make it any less a fallacy.



    Which was wrong.



    Actually, you only said that you had provided objective numbers....IRRC, those numbers you provided from a controversial study were in dispute themselves, so instead of making your case you just continued to say "nuh uh" and take on face value that the stats were correct, and objective. A dishonest tactic BTW.



    Only because you have NO power to make such a reality. Based on your stated reasoning I think that any reasonable person would have to conclude that you would argue that if you had the power to make such a reality.



    If you repeat a lie often enough it still does not become a fact, although you may like to think differently.



    Yes, and can you lay out to me what you think the term "shall not infringe" means in legal terms?
    No. One reason says I have friends in police work, and the other says so does he, but the points to objective evidence, there is not an appeal to authority. You are mistaken. My argue,ent is not build on who we both know or their opinion.

    And no, the numbers are not disputed by anyone. Those who argue dispute the conclusions, making excuses fir why those dead shoud not be counted. But he numbers themselves are not disputed.

    And no, no reasonable person makes wild leaps about something I have neither sad nor implied. In fact I have stated the exact opposite.

    And if "shall not infringe" were the only words, asking that question might make sense. But even the courts have interpreted the other words to all for some limitations. Precedence matters.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that's crap. every time a cop draws his weapon its documented. Many times with non leo's there are no reports

    and you still ignore the initiator-non-initiator difference

    why don't you just come out and say what we all know you believe

    you think honest law abiding citizens cannot be trusted with the same self defensive weapons we give civilian police officers
    I bet I could not find one single citizen in our largest city here in my state who has pulled a weapon against a criminal in the last year. You are largely supposing the suit your preconceived notion of the gun myth.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No. One reason says I have friends in police work, and the other says so does he, but the points to objective evidence, there is not an appeal to authority. You are mistaken. My argue,ent is not build on who we both know or their opinion.

    Tap dance around the fact all you want Joe, you got busted in your fallacy, now just accept it and move on. The thread isn't about you.

    And no, the numbers are not disputed by anyone. Those who argue dispute the conclusions, making excuses fir why those dead shoud not be counted. But he numbers themselves are not disputed.
    Well, I do apologize for not catching the link to this study you are hanging your hat on. Could you possibly post the link again so that I may review it myself without spending the afternoon searching for it?

    And no, no reasonable person makes wild leaps about something I have neither sad nor implied. In fact I have stated the exact opposite.
    The mistake you make here is to assume that you are the judge of what is reasonable.

    And if "shall not infringe" were the only words, asking that question might make sense. But even the courts have interpreted the other words to all for some limitations. Precedence matters.
    I didn't ask you that. Can you answer the question?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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