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Thread: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standard

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Your argument has zero merit in the real world. Your understanding of history is somewhere between revisionist and fabrication.
    Your argument is manure. You live in a fabricated fantasy straight out of a cheap comic book. zap, pow, bang.

    And yes, bringing up Obama was relevant because you blamed gun owners under hitler, Stalin and Mao, the three greatest mass murderers of recent history, for being paranoid, and that paranoia being the cause for those tyrants to start killing people by the millions... Next you also blamed me and other gun owners for the push towards greater gun laws.
    I used the same comparison of Hitler, Stalin and Mao that I hear so often from pro-gun people. But the fact is propaganda, demonizing minorities and eliminating trade unions and opposing political parties is what brought the Nazis to power and interestingly enough those are the same exact tactics the right wing in the US are using today.


    You are alluding that Obama SHOULD kill millions of Americans because there are some that prefer to maintain the capacity to defend themselves against such an oppression like we've seen several times in relatively recent history (100 years or so).
    Nope, only you are alluding that and it makes me wonder if you have a picture of Hitler hanging next to your confederate flag over your fireplace.
    Last edited by Moot; 01-13-13 at 04:22 PM.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    There was quite a scandle over gun manufacturers making and selling inferior guns to the government during the early 19th century. So can you link or point to an 18th or early 19th century government regulation that standardized guns and/or their manufacture?
    Can I point to a regulation? Why would I need to? My argument is that you are using "regulation" in a different way than the intent of the framers of the Constitution.

    The very first thing the second amendment calls for is a "well regulated milita." So if militas can be regulated and the people are the militas, then it stands to reason that the people's arms can be regulated as well.
    This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the reading of the amendment...If for example you want to separate the statements of the amendment to suit your argument then you must also take into consideration the portion of the amendment that states "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Regulation does not mean "banning" and yet I hear the pro-gun side use the word ban and banning far more often than I do their opponents. So if anyone is using the word "regulation" in a far different way, it's the pro-gun folks.
    If not to ''ban" people from owning certain firearms, then in what way are you using regulation?
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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Can I point to a regulation? Why would I need to? My argument is that you are using "regulation" in a different way than the intent of the framers of the Constitution.
    And I asked you to prove your argument by pointing out how the framers used regulation that is different from today? So either you can't or you don't know what you're talking about. I suspect both.

    This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the reading of the amendment...If for example you want to separate the statements of the amendment to suit your argument then you must also take into consideration the portion of the amendment that states "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
    The second amendment is only one sentence, not two. So why are you ignoring the first clause that the framers obviously intended to be more important than the second? Can you at least tell me who the militias were?

    If not to ''ban" people from owning certain firearms, then in what way are you using regulation?
    I use the term to regulate the same way the dictionary does and there is no mention of ban or banning in the definition. So why do you keep using the word ban when it does't mean to regulate or isn't mentioned in the second amendment?

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    Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standard

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Excellent example as much time, expense and regulation goes into improving car safety. But, your example was a bit knee-jerk as no one is talking about banning guns or autos. They are talking about regulation, which involves tightening sale and resale requirements and perhaps banning certain types of guns and extended clips.

    We extensively regulate autos. Air bags, for example, were not highly popular, but we have them. The list of government imposed safety regulations on the auto industry specifically and transportation in general would blow your mind (be quite extensive), yet people don't throw the same irrational hissy fit over improvements to auto safety as they do over some simple make sense changes in gun distribution.

    Moreover, I was addressing a few mass shootings, not the totality of gun deaths. If you must know there is one death by gun for every three deaths by auto. One distinction, however, is rarely is an auto death deliberate, yet most gun deaths are.
    Yes, exactly, in spite of the regulations and safety features, people are still dying at a far greater rate as a result of automobiles and we aren't even so much as talking about banning cars that can DOUBLE the speed limit with ease.


    There's crazy people everywhere behind the wheels of a car they can't be trusted... Maybe you should have to pass a psychological exam before driving.

    It's the same thing, you have the same rights to move as you do to defend yourself in the ways you see fit. (I don't even carry guns, though if I need I have quick access to a shotgun, but what I do have is this horrible tendency to "forget" to lock up my hammer or other tools when I leave work, which has protected me from being robbed downtown on at least one occasion).

    And yes, most gun deaths are deliberate... If you point it at someone you better damn well mean it.

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    Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standard

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Your argument is manure. You live in a fabricated fantasy straight out of a cheap comic book. zap, pow, bang.
    Coming from the person who boasts about taking the word of a revisionist blogger... Ok, thanks for the compliment.


    I used the same comparison of Hitler, Stalin and Mao that I hear so often from pro-gun people. But the fact is propaganda, demonizing minorities and eliminating trade unions and opposing political parties is what brought the Nazis to power and interestingly enough those are the same exact tactics the right wing in the US are using today.
    Ok, this thought shows a level of distinction I was worried you are incapable of...

    In this way, both left and right are working together... The right through increasing political power, the left by increasing government power.

    The fascism comes from the amalgamation of those two sides of the power structure into a power block, or said differently, the right creates a situation for a leftist to take over and do the killing. (this may be a valid example for nazi Germany, though im not sure if the distinction is accurate for stalin and Mao.)


    Nope, only you are alluding that and it makes me wonder if you have a picture of Hitler hanging next to your confederate flag over your fireplace.
    Lol now you are revising history from 30 min ago... It was you that stated that it was because of gun owners paranoia that hitler became the mass murderer that he was... And you stated it in such a way as to allude that gun owners today are paranoid.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Coming from the person who boasts about taking the word of a revisionist blogger... Ok, thanks for the compliment.
    The Jefferson quotes were the same. So it wouldn't matter it came from.


    Ok, this thought shows a level of distinction I was worried you are incapable of...

    In this way, both left and right are working together... The right through increasing political power, the left by increasing government power.

    The fascism comes from the amalgamation of those two sides of the power structure into a power block, or said differently, the right creates a situation for a leftist to take over and do the killing. (this may be a valid example for nazi Germany, though im not sure if the distinction is accurate for stalin and Mao.)
    Nnno. The right uses propaganda, persecution of minorities, union busting, gerrymandering, demogary and intimidation of political oppents, and voter disenfranchisment to gain political power. The left still uses the ballot box.

    Lol now you are revising history from 30 min ago... It was you that stated that it was because of gun owners paranoia that hitler became the mass murderer that he was... And you stated it in such a way as to allude that gun owners today are paranoid.
    You're very good at twisting my words. But I can see you know exactly what I meant. So nice try, BmanMcFly but that pig don't fly.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Nnno. The right uses propaganda, persecution of minorities, union busting, gerrymandering, demogary and intimidation of political oppents, and voter disenfranchisment to gain political power. The left still uses the ballot box.
    The left uses propaganda, manipulation of minorities, union monopolization, gerrymandering and demonization of politcal opponents and voter fraud to gain political power.

    I hope you can see what I did there. Pretending one side of the political process is any less dirty than the other is like arguing which pig has less mud on it.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    I'm not certain that I would label a 13 year period during which we witnessed over 20 mass shootings leading to the deaths of over 200 people a "time of mass hysteria". Yes, over reacting to one event might be consistent with your characterization, but no one is reacting to just one event.

    Backgrounder: Main mass shootings in U.S. since 1999
    Do you find it at all strange that so many of these incidents occurred in gun-free zones?
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Yes, exactly, in spite of the regulations and safety features, people are still dying at a far greater rate as a result of automobiles and we aren't even so much as talking about banning cars that can DOUBLE the speed limit with ease.


    There's crazy people everywhere behind the wheels of a car they can't be trusted... Maybe you should have to pass a psychological exam before driving.

    It's the same thing, you have the same rights to move as you do to defend yourself in the ways you see fit. (I don't even carry guns, though if I need I have quick access to a shotgun, but what I do have is this horrible tendency to "forget" to lock up my hammer or other tools when I leave work, which has protected me from being robbed downtown on at least one occasion).

    And yes, most gun deaths are deliberate... If you point it at someone you better damn well mean it.
    and yes most gun deaths are innocents too. Wives and chidren murdered by the very thing that was "supposed" to protect them. How sad is that? Leavng a loaded gun around is about the most dangerous thing you can do for your family. Why do so many still insist on doing it?

    I agree we need to keep reducing auto fatalities too. Govt. safety regulations have already reduced them by over 90% oer mile traveled. But we still need to do more, just like we need to do more with gun safety.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Who do you think Hitler's "subject races" and "underdogs" were? They were the scapegoat minorities the Nazi's used to instill fear and hate into the German population to help them rise to power. They were the Jews, gypsies and homosexuals and they didn't have their guns confiscated, they had all of their property and wealth confiscated and were shipped off to concentration camps. Do you think it's a coincidence that the rightwing are scapegoating minorities with brown skin and homosexuals in the US? I don't.

    Hitler rose to power through national elections and by eliminating trade unions and opposing political parties......not unlike what the right wing in the US are trying to today. He didn't have the authority or the man power to confiscate arms until he was appointed Chancelor and the passage of the Enabling Act and by then the German people were overwhelmingly in support of the Nazi party. The notion that he had to confiscate guns in order to rise to power is pure rubbish and propaganda perpetuated by the right wing in the US so that they can machtergreifung in our own country and have totaltalitarian control over all our lives...just like Hitler.

    Enabling Act of 1933 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Machtergreifung - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    Gleichschaltung - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    Thank you for reminding me that Hitler eliminated trade unions in order to rise to power.
    Eliminating unions in favor of central planning (fascism) is a far cry from advocating right-to-work legislation. But it's always fun to see a leftie try and compare Repubs to Nazis...have the rich not been the biggest scapegoat over the past 4 years?

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