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Thread: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standard

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    swords sabers dirks, hatchets, poleaxes, bayonets rapiers switchblades (Supreme Court of Oregon ruled that its "second amendment" applied to switchblade knives) etc are all clearly protected as well
    Well, if the court can decide what arms are protected by the second amendment, then why can't congress regulate arms?

    I still can't get passed the "well regulated milita" clause since it is the very first thing the second amendment calls for. So if militas can be regulated and the people are the militas then it stands to reason that people's arms can be regulated as well. The last I checked, regulating does not mean banning.


    regulated past participle, past tense of reg·u·late (Verb)
    Verb
    1.Control or maintain the rate or speed of (a machine or process) so that it operates properly.

    2.Control or supervise (something, esp. a company or business activity) by means of rules and regulations.
    Last edited by Moot; 01-13-13 at 03:08 PM.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Well, if the court can decide what arms are protected by the second amendment, then why can't congress regulate arms?

    I still can't get passed the "well regulated milita" clause since it is the very thing the second amendment calls for. So if militas can be regulated and the people are the militas then it stands to reason that people's arms can be regulated as well. The last I checked, regulating does not mean banning.
    you cannot get past an erroneous understanding of the amendment and ignorance of the tenth amendment because if you honestly interpreted the second amendment and other parts of the constitution you would realize that there is no proper grounds for the federal government to regulate small arms

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you cannot get past an erroneous understanding of the amendment and ignorance of the tenth amendment because if you honestly interpreted the second amendment and other parts of the constitution you would realize that there is no proper grounds for the federal government to regulate small arms
    The second amendment gives the federal government the authority to regulate militas and this is confirmed by the tenth amendment. The government can regulate milita's firearms and the people are the militas. So how can the government regulate the militas firearms if it can't regulate the people's firearms?

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    The confusion purposely advanced by those seeking to limit a constitutional right to own firearms is astonishing...For instance, no one is saying that regulation is necessarily a bad thing, however, regulation in the terms of constitutional ownership in the 18th century was largely on uniform manufacture. You didn't want the man next to you using a firearm that wasn't reliable. Uniform regulation in manufacture is a necessary thing with things like firearms to ensure operational standards.

    Opponents of free application of ownership of firearms want to use regulation in a far different way.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standard

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The sad truth is that we would all be "safer" if only the criminals and the police had guns. No one thinks that will work here but we need to at least miniimize the risks so our gun culture isn't so destructive to innocents. What we don't want is for everyone to "need" a gun or think that having a gun will make you safer from gun violence, that is a lie and is unacceptble given the additional deaths it would cause. The other statistic that is undisputable is the one that says more guns = more gun violence. Is that what the "gun nuts" really want? More shootings, more murders?
    Really?!?!!?!?!?!?

    You are actually and honestly stating that the world would be safer if only criminals and cops had guns?!?

    So, let me ask you a question: a group of people breaks into your house, what is your strategy of survival for te average 15 minutes before cops arrive??

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    Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standard

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Such as?

    First of all I never mentioned Obama and never suggested any such thing. But it's quite telling that you're trying to bring him into the equasion to distract from the the NRAs use of propaganda as compared to Hitlers. Because blaming the "other" is exactly what Hitler did to inspire the masses to achieve his goal of a paranoied distopian society as well.

    It's just one fallacy after another with you, isn't it.

    I think you've said plenty to prove my point.

    Quite the opposite.
    Your argument has zero merit in the real world. Your understanding of history is somewhere between revisionist and fabrication.

    And yes, bringing up Obama was relevant because you blamed gun owners under hitler, Stalin and Mao, the three greatest mass murderers of recent history, for being paranoid, and that paranoia being the cause for those tyrants to start killing people by the millions... Next you also blamed me and other gun owners for the push towards greater gun laws.

    You are alluding that Obama SHOULD kill millions of Americans because there are some that prefer to maintain the capacity to defend themselves against such an oppression like we've seen several times in relatively recent history (100 years or so).

    So, tell me, how many Swiss Jews died in the holocaust? And bonus points if you can address the factor that led to the answer.

    And how have you even proven your point when you've offered absolute verifiable nonsense and haven't even gone and tried to offer a single source to back up your claims... Except for that one source by that historical revisionist with no real merits???

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    The confusion purposely advanced by those seeking to limit a constitutional right to own firearms is astonishing...For instance, no one is saying that regulation is necessarily a bad thing, however, regulation in the terms of constitutional ownership in the 18th century was largely on uniform manufacture. You didn't want the man next to you using a firearm that wasn't reliable. Uniform regulation in manufacture is a necessary thing with things like firearms to ensure operational standards.
    There was quite a scandle over gun manufacturers making and selling inferior guns to the government during the early 19th century. So can you link or point to an 18th or early 19th century government regulation that standardized guns and/or their manufacture?


    Opponents of free application of ownership of firearms want to use regulation in a far different way.
    The very first thing the second amendment calls for is a "well regulated milita." So if militas can be regulated and the people are the militas, then it stands to reason that the people's arms can be regulated as well.

    Regulation does not mean "banning" and yet I hear the pro-gun side use the word ban and banning far more often than I do their opponents. So if anyone is using the word "regulation" in a far different way, it's the pro-gun folks.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I'd prefer to avoid using legislation, let alone the dubious mechanism of Executive Orders, to make any major changes in our laws and traditions during a time of mass hysteria.
    I'm not certain that I would label a 13 year period during which we witnessed over 20 mass shootings leading to the deaths of over 200 people a "time of mass hysteria". Yes, over reacting to one event might be consistent with your characterization, but no one is reacting to just one event.

    Backgrounder: Main mass shootings in U.S. since 1999
    Last edited by upsideguy; 01-13-13 at 03:56 PM.

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    Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standard

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    I'm not certain that I would label a 13 year period during which we witnessed over 20 mass shootings leading to the deaths of over 200 people a "time of mass hysteria". Yes, over reacting to one event might be consistent with your characterization, but no one is reacting to just one event.
    And how many people died in car accidents over that same 20 year period?

    Then how come we aren't talking about banning cars, certainly more people died in car accidents, even as a ratio of gun owners to gun deaths to car owners and vehicular fatalities?

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    And how many people died in car accidents over that same 20 year period?

    Then how come we aren't talking about banning cars, certainly more people died in car accidents, even as a ratio of gun owners to gun deaths to car owners and vehicular fatalities?
    Excellent example as much time, expense and regulation goes into improving car safety. But, your example was a bit knee-jerk as no one is talking about banning guns or autos. They are talking about regulation, which involves tightening sale and resale requirements and perhaps banning certain types of guns and extended clips.

    We extensively regulate autos. Air bags, for example, were not highly popular, but we have them. The list of government imposed safety regulations on the auto industry specifically and transportation in general would blow your mind (be quite extensive), yet people don't throw the same irrational hissy fit over improvements to auto safety as they do over some simple make sense changes in gun distribution.

    Moreover, I was addressing a few mass shootings, not the totality of gun deaths. If you must know there is one death by gun for every three deaths by auto. One distinction, however, is rarely is an auto death deliberate, yet most gun deaths are.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 01-13-13 at 04:08 PM.

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