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Thread: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standard

  1. #311
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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    31 pages...Hmmmm...


    Let's put some perspective to this fear and anxiety over the President possibly issuing an Executive Order on "gun control". Unless that order reads "No American citizen can purchase any gun or riffle fr any type in the U.S. unless they are part of a state militia or military force," you can relax.

    Restrictions on gun sales (i.e., types of weapons allowed to be sold to the general public for personal protection), types/calibers of ammunication or points of sale (i.e., general/sporting goods stores vice trade shows/flea markets) aren't the same as an all-out ban on selling any and ALL weapons. So, gun enthusiast, get a grip!
    this is idiotic because you either intentionally ignore or are ignorant of the incremental program to destroy gun rights. If Obama came out tomorrow and said he was going to ban all guns his administration would be over effectively that day because he would be impeached. But what we have seen was a many year program to ban guns. Bans on automatic weapons has been cited as precedent for bans on semi automatic weapons. 30 round magazine limits then ten round limits (NY and other states) and now Cuomo wants 7 round limits.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    Possibly, depending on the contents within.

    More caricature based analysis. Legal analysis is best obtained from folks who actually work within said field as opposed to opinion based junk and armchair analysis from blogosphere bird brains.

    Nonsense, we are members of this forum to discuss our opinions on a range of subjects. You don't like that others have negative opinions of Obama and his actions so your argument is to dismiss others opinions, and label them something less than worthy of discussion, in a true Sol Alenski-esque application debate that begs the question if you are not here to honestly discuss opinions with others that may disagree with you, then why are you here?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    this is idiotic because you either intentionally ignore or are ignorant of the incremental program to destroy gun rights. If Obama came out tomorrow and said he was going to ban all guns his administration would be over effectively that day because he would be impeached. But what we have seen was a many year program to ban guns. Bans on automatic weapons has been cited as precedent for bans on semi automatic weapons. 30 round magazine limits then ten round limits (NY and other states) and now Cuomo wants 7 round limits.
    What bill approved by Congress and signed into LAW by our nation's 44th President bans the sale of any and all weapons in the United States?

    You know the answer is NONE, but you enjoy spewing your hyperbolic anti-Obama/anti-Liberal rants just to foster an atmospher of fear and anxiety. Do get over yourself, TD, and try to get a grip on reality.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Nonsense, we are members of this forum to discuss our opinions on a range of subjects.

    You don't like that others have negative opinions of Obama and his actions

    so your argument is to dismiss others opinions, and label them something less than worthy of discussion in a true Sol Alenski-esque application debate

    that begs the question if you are not here to honestly discuss opinions with others that may disagree with you, then why are you here?
    Yeah, I got that.

    Actually, I'm not personally in favor of further gun control, as I feel it wouldn't adequately address the root of such events. I'm actually on board with LaPierre's suggestion. What I do dismiss frequently and without hesitation are claims of knowledge and foresight regarding the constitutionality of alterations to current law before the specifics are so much as released. Easy to do and fun too!

    Hmm..Must be Saul's cousin or something. By the way, Saul doesn't exactly have a monopoly on mockery interjected into conversation. Could just as easily be traced back to Rodney Dangerfield or Groucho.

    Oh I discuss and argue a great deal, although I can't say I value opinions much at all regarding nuts and bolts, black and white issues. By the way, just what have I presented thus far that would qualify as dishonest as you suggest?

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    What bill approved by Congress and signed into LAW by our nation's 44th President bans the sale of any and all weapons in the United States?

    You know the answer is NONE, but you enjoy spewing your hyperbolic anti-Obama/anti-Liberal rants just to foster an atmospher of fear and anxiety. Do get over yourself, TD, and try to get a grip on reality.
    I get tired of people playing dumb on this issue. You pretend that unless there is a complete ban, there is no intent to ban. Sadly for you, those of us who actually follow this issue are well aware that those who want bans have publicly noted that a complete ban, right away won't work, so it has to be gradual

    so anything that is designed to

    1) ban some stuff

    2) desensitize the public to bans

    3) create legal precedent for bans

    are part of the program to ban guns

    and while one can support one of the steps without personally supporting the ultimate goal, you are still supporting those who want a total ban

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I get tired of people playing dumb on this issue. You pretend that unless there is a complete ban, there is no intent to ban.

    and while one can support one of the steps without personally supporting the ultimate goal, you are still supporting those who want a total ban
    And on the other hand you've arbitrarily assigned extreme and draconian motives to those you disagree with. Both degrees of silliness and naivety I'm afraid.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I get tired of people playing dumb on this issue. You pretend that unless there is a complete ban, there is no intent to ban. Sadly for you, those of us who actually follow this issue are well aware that those who want bans have publicly noted that a complete ban, right away won't work, so it has to be gradual

    so anything that is designed to

    1) ban some stuff

    2) desensitize the public to bans

    3) create legal precedent for bans

    are part of the program to ban guns

    and while one can support one of the steps without personally supporting the ultimate goal, you are still supporting those who want a total ban
    No. I support sensable gun control because I don't believe it is necessary for the general population to own any weapon they so desire. Moreover, I believe that unless you address the wholes in legislation that DO NOT keep the most dangerous weapons off the streets and out of the hands of mentally ill or mental unstable individuals, criminals or those who just want to conduct mayheim, we don't do society any good whatsoever.

    Now, you can stay on the side of "political creep" that says every little step is a prelude to a larger one down the road, but I say it's a foolish position to take. Why? Over 200 years since the Militia Act was first ratified by Congress and people can still rightly purchase a gun or riffle.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    Yeah, I got that.

    Actually, I'm not personally in favor of further gun control, as I feel it wouldn't adequately address the root of such events. I'm actually on board with LaPierre's suggestion. What I do dismiss frequently and without hesitation are claims of knowledge and foresight regarding the constitutionality of alterations to current law before the specifics are so much as released. Easy to do and fun too!

    Hmm..Must be Saul's cousin or something. By the way, Saul doesn't exactly have a monopoly on mockery interjected into conversation. Could just as easily be traced back to Rodney Dangerfield or Groucho.

    Oh I discuss and argue a great deal, although I can't say I value opinions much at all regarding nuts and bolts, black and white issues. By the way, just what have I presented thus far that would qualify as dishonest as you suggest?

    It was just the tactic...IF you really don't value other opinions, then it really makes no sense to me that you would waste your time on a site that is composed of opinions.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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  9. #319
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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Where do you get off saying that Hitler, Stalin and Mao disarmed the population?
    Found an interesting site:
    Dictators and Gun Control America In Chains

    Some excerpts from the site:
    ***
    “The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let’s not have any native militia or native police. German troops alone will bear the sole responsibility for the maintenance of law and order throughout the occupied Russian territories, and a system of military strong-points must be evolved to cover the entire occupied country.”
    - Adolf Hitler, dinner talk on April 11, 1942

    ***

    Read this post for more information on Hitler's gun control laws.

    More from the site:
    ***
    “If the opposition disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves.”
    - Joseph Stalin

    In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. By 1987 that figure had risen to 61,911,000.

    “The measures adopted to restore public order are: First of all, the elimination of the so-called subversive elements. … They were elements of disorder and subversion. On the morrow of each conflict I gave the categorical order to confiscate the largest possible number of weapons of every sort and kind. This confiscation, which continues with the utmost energy, has given satisfactory results.”
    - Benito Mussolini, address to the Italian Senate, 1931
    ***

    11 years later, General Mario Robotti, Commander of the Italian 11th division in Slovenia and Croatia, issued an order in line with a directive received from Mussolini in June 1942: "I would not be opposed to all (sic) Slovenes being imprisoned and replaced by Italians. In other words, we should take steps to ensure that political and ethnic frontiers coincide.",[126] which qualifies as ethnic cleansing policy.

    The Province of Ljubljana saw the deportation of 25.000 people, which equaled 7.5% of the total population. The operation, one of the most drastic in the Europe, filled up Italian concentration camps on the island Rab, in Gonars, Monigo (Treviso), Renicci d'Anghiari, Chiesanuova and elsewhere.

    Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benito_...vil_population

    More from Dictators and Gun Control:
    ***
    Mao Tze Tung - Promoted Gun Control
    “All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party.”
    - Mao Tze Tung, Nov 6 1938

    China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952 10,076,000 political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated in Kuomintang China, and by 1987 another 35,236,000 exterminations were carried out under the Communists.

    ***

    And one (amoung many people of note) of the entries against the confiscation of guns:
    ***
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government
    Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

    ***

    For those who may not know who Thomas Jefferson was, here's his introduction in his wikipedia article:
    ***
    Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743 (April 2, 1743 O.S.) – July 4, 1826) was an American Founding Father, the principal author of the Declaration of Independence (1776) and the third President of the United States (1801–1809). At the beginning of the American Revolution, he served in the Continental Congress, representing Virginia and then served as a wartime Governor of Virginia (1779–1781).
    ***
    Last edited by phoenyx; 01-13-13 at 12:39 PM.

  10. #320
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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The sad truth is that we would all be "safer" if only the criminals and the police had guns.
    Or hammers. Don't forget hammers.
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
    - Abraham Lincoln

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