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Thread: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standard

  1. #261
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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Here, in the wake of ten bills being proposed, Biden talks about Obama going the executive route if the legislative route fails.
    That doesn't appear to be supported by the text offered either.
    The text offered seems to say that there will be legislative action "as well." Which, imho, means something different than if the legislative action fails we will resort to EOs.
    See, to me, in my mind, "as well" means something more equivalent to "also", "too", and "in addition."
    but we have already determined that I have some reading comprehension issues. So take that assessment with a grain or two of salt.

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Again, what do you interpret Bidens statement as saying?? Since it clearly means something else in your mind.
    Again, I hew closer to the emanings of the words which were presented and don't see the need to drift so far afield or to be creative in the interpretation. Again, as you pointed out, I have some serious issues which may or may not prevent my mind from thinking clearly.

    "There are executives orders..."
    imho, this means that executive orders exist. ymmv

    "...there's executive action that can be taken."
    imho this means that there are deeds which can be done by the PotUS in re the matter at hand. ymmv

    " We haven't decided what that is yet. "
    imho, this means that they have not picked a course of action. ymmv

    " But we're compiling it all..."
    They are gathering a list of options. ymmv

    "...with the help of the attorney general and the rest of the cabinet members..."
    The AG and members of the cabinet are helping with the list of options. ymmv

    "...as well as legislative action that we believe is required."[/I][/COLOR]
    They think that changes to current laws or the creation of new laws is required to be a part of the appropriate course of action. ymmv

    So, as you can see, I don't see anything akin to a threat to confiscate firearms in that statement.
    I am usually not the first to subscribe to creative or dynamic interpretations of words and language.
    My reluctance to go with the newer more exciting interpretation may be what's keeping me from being able to find the part where Biden threatens to confiscate firearms.

    So, if you could just underline the part of the quote where the threat to confiscate firearms occurs, perhaps that would help me see the light. Then I could get a charge out of feeling that fear and drama like some other people seem to.
    I may be wrong.

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    Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standard

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    That doesn't appear to be supported by the text offered either.
    The text offered seems to say that there will be legislative action "as well." Which, imho, means something different than if the legislative action fails we will resort to EOs.
    See, to me, in my mind, "as well" means something more equivalent to "also", "too", and "in addition."
    but we have already determined that I have some reading comprehension issues. So take that assessment with a grain or two of salt.

    Again, I hew closer to the emanings of the words which were presented and don't see the need to drift so far afield or to be creative in the interpretation. Again, as you pointed out, I have some serious issues which may or may not prevent my mind from thinking clearly.

    "There are executives orders..."
    imho, this means that executive orders exist. ymmv

    "...there's executive action that can be taken."
    imho this means that there are deeds which can be done by the PotUS in re the matter at hand. ymmv

    " We haven't decided what that is yet. "
    imho, this means that they have not picked a course of action. ymmv

    " But we're compiling it all..."
    They are gathering a list of options. ymmv

    "...with the help of the attorney general and the rest of the cabinet members..."
    The AG and members of the cabinet are helping with the list of options. ymmv

    "...as well as legislative action that we believe is required."[/I][/COLOR]
    They think that changes to current laws or the creation of new laws is required to be a part of the appropriate course of action. ymmv

    So, as you can see, I don't see anything akin to a threat to confiscate firearms in that statement.
    I am usually not the first to subscribe to creative or dynamic interpretations of words and language.
    My reluctance to go with the newer more exciting interpretation may be what's keeping me from being able to find the part where Biden threatens to confiscate firearms.

    So, if you could just underline the part of the quote where the threat to confiscate firearms occurs, perhaps that would help me see the light. Then I could get a charge out of feeling that fear and drama like some other people seem to.
    Ok, so you know, you point out a few ways where I gave the benefit... What he was saying then was that all those presented bills are not enough.

    So, what do you propose he means by these actions that are required??

    No matter how you slice it, the executive orders will require some sort of mental health background check (that will deem virtually everyone ineligible), to the worst case of a "forced buy back" to outright confiscation, and wherever the "solution" lies it will be unconstitutional... And people that can't see past the tip of their nose will cheer not knowing that they are casting a vote to increase crime, to make their streets less safe, and to make the government more oppressive.

    The fact is that a well armed society is a safer society and generally more friendly / polite.

    That's why these extremely rare events are highly profiled and used to push an agenda of gradual disarmament... The unfortunate fact is that when the people are disarmed the people that keep their weapons rule over the ones disarmed.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Moot, you really are getting destroyed in this thread. Maybe quit digging while you are still behind?
    I don't think so, cpwill. I simply put forward a question to see what kind of responses it would get. Yours was rather...banal and uninspiring.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No, it just demonstrates the baseline you are working from.
    Actually I've found better and more indepth baselines to work from.

    Nah. Mao had that one right - political power flows from the barrel of the gun. Lincoln understood that if you win the war, the legal reasoning will follow.
    Lincoln went to great lengths never to call it a war. For if he hadn't, he wouldn't have had a legal base on which to suppress the rebel states and keep them in the union and all the guns and all the blood shed would have been for naught. Mao wasn't exactly the brightest leader and you'd do well to find another mentor.


    Yeah, here's the only problem with that. It doesn't actually have any impact whatsoever on either that quote or the discussion at hand - especially given that it was an act of Congress.
    Yes, it was an act of congress giving the president sole discretion and permanent authority to use the standing army to suppress insurrections of US citizens. The fact that it was signed into law by Jefferson himself had the effect of making him the tyrant. I'm sorry if you fail to understand that, but it does in fact pertain to the discussion to the letter.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Dammitboy! View Post
    The 2nd amendment was not written to protect gun manufacturers. In point of fact, I doubt there was any kind of established gun manufacturing at the time it was written. The 2nd amendment was written to protect our right to self-defense from an over-reaching government - to put restrictions on government from taking our firearms.

    How can you not possibly know or understand this?!
    In an age of Apache helicopters, cruise missiles, carrier battle groups, and predator drones, what kind of delusional individual thinks they can defend themselves against a "tyrannical" US government? That AR-15's really going to be the difference between freedom and oppression, is it?

    If the US government decides to go 1984 on us, there isn't anything we can do to stop them. Fortunately, it's the same delusions that lead people to believe this is actually happening.
    Last edited by Deuce; 01-12-13 at 03:38 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standard

    If we have learned anything from Iraq and Afghanistan it is that guerrilla tactics can be highly effective. Sure we have over come them but look at the cost in time, money, and manpower, it has cost.

    You can destroy a multimillion dollar piece of equipment with a roadside bomb.

    Organized troops have to follow rules, which can be a hindrance when fighting people who don't.

    If your fighting civilians, how do you get PID? How do you know who to shoot and who not to.

    Do you think you will lose support from the non violent population when they start seeing their friends and family get mowed down?

    There will be defectors, soldiers are trained to kill terrorist/foreign aggressors, their not going to be too happy turning the barrels on their countrymen ( if they even do it at all)

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratrooper View Post
    If we have learned anything from Iraq and Afghanistan it is that guerrilla tactics can be highly effective. Sure we have over come them but look at the cost in time, money, and manpower, it has cost.

    You can destroy a multimillion dollar piece of equipment with a roadside bomb.

    Organized troops have to follow rules, which can be a hindrance when fighting people who don't.

    If your fighting civilians, how do you get PID? How do you know who to shoot and who not to.

    Do you think you will lose support from the non violent population when they start seeing their friends and family get mowed down?

    There will be defectors, soldiers are trained to kill terrorist/foreign aggressors, their not going to be too happy turning the barrels on their countrymen ( if they even do it at all)
    The military is sworn to protect the country and the constitution, an attempt at violent overthrow is going to be seen as the enemy.

    If the military "defects" to a sufficient degree, the armed civilians are irrelevant. This 1984 government you guys fantasize about fighting against can't exist without the force of the military and police. Remember, this is some hypothetical tyrannical government. It wont be like Afghanistan. The gloves will be off. Chicago proving hard to pacify? Drop bombs until they cooperate.

    Incidentally, we have eleven of these.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  7. #267
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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    What he was saying then was that all those presented bills are not enough.
    You seem to take it that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    So, what do you propose he means by these actions that are required??
    " We haven't decided what that is yet. "
    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    No matter how you slice it, the executive orders will require some sort of mental health background check (that will deem virtually everyone ineligible) to the worst case of a "forced buy back" to outright confiscation, and wherever the "solution" lies it will be unconstitutional...
    This seems to be largely based on assumptions you have made rather than the evidence at hand.
    It's fanciful to think that the PotUS would even consider some of the kinds of things which people have decided to be afraid of him doing. Everybody and their dog realize that some of the scenarios being floated would have the entire nation up in arms.
    Worse than a crime, it would be a blunder.

    Imho, there's a great willingness on the part of some to suspend disbelief and swallow conspiracists' sensationalist speculations when it comes to this matter. ymmv.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratrooper View Post
    If we have learned anything from Iraq and Afghanistan it is that guerrilla tactics can be highly effective. Sure we have over come them but look at the cost in time, money, and manpower, it has cost.

    You can destroy a multimillion dollar piece of equipment with a roadside bomb.

    Organized troops have to follow rules, which can be a hindrance when fighting people who don't.

    If your fighting civilians, how do you get PID? How do you know who to shoot and who not to.

    Do you think you will lose support from the non violent population when they start seeing their friends and family get mowed down?

    There will be defectors, soldiers are trained to kill terrorist/foreign aggressors, their not going to be too happy turning the barrels on their countrymen ( if they even do it at all)
    All that has been taken into consideration and theorized by military strategists and their conclusion is an insurrection by civilians would not be successful....

    War Colleges Need to Plan for Military Action to Suppress ?Insurrections? on U.S. Soil

    If I recall the national guard had no problem turning their weapons on civilians during the 1960s.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Firearms Refresher Course:

    1. "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson

    2. "Those who trade liberty for security have neither." ~John Adams

    3. Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.

    4. An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

    5. Only a government that is afraid of its citizens tries to control them.

    6. Gun control is not about guns; it is about control.

    7. You only have the rights you are willing to fight for.

    8. Know guns, know peace, know safety.
    No guns, no peace, no safety.

    9. You don't shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive.

    10. Assault is a behavior, not a device.

    11. 64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.

    12. The United States Constitution (c) 1791. All rights reserved.

    13. The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

    14. What part of 'shall not be infringed' do you NOT understand?

    15. Guns have only two enemies: rust and politicians.

    16. When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you create slaves.

    17. The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control.
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
    - Abraham Lincoln

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    Unfortunately a majority of the country disagrees with you. Otherwise Obama would not have been reelected.
    problem is the act took place after the election.. if he campaigned on taking guns away.. he would have gone the way of Mondale.

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