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Thread: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standard

  1. #111
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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Lets just use the executive order to pass law!
    Executive orders are constitutional aren't they?
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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    They are not the ones threatening to break the law if they don't like it, you are.
    He wasn't threatening to disobey any law. He was threatening to disobey an executive order. The President does not have the authority to unilaterally enact a law. He can only sign a bill into law that is passed by Congress.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    With the SCOTUS ruling not that long ago that overruled handgun bans, I don't see what Obama could possibly do that could be so major. He has executive privilege but he would still have to contend with the other branches.

    I do believe in the Second Amendment and the function of a well armed population against tyranny. It's just hard for me to reconcile the era that the Constitution was made vs. what firearms are capable of in the modern world. Gun technology has changed a lot. If the U.S. government ever turned tyrannical and was able to retain loyalty of the military, I'm not sure what the general population could do. Tanks vs. guns? I dunno. I'm not saying that should be a reason to limit the Second Amendment, but is the population armed enough to really take on the government anyway? It seems like people who misuse guns would rather turn them on their fellow citizens and not the government.
    A big part of your dilemma stems from the assumption that a tyrannical government would retain the loyalty of the military. The military is not some big, monolithic mindless machine under the government's control. It consists of a very large number of individual American citizens, every one of which has taken an oath to uphold the Constitution and to defend it against all enemies, foreign and domestic. I think it's a safe bet that a very large proportion of these individuals would, if it came to that—a tyrannical government handing down orders to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow Americans, and to make war against their fellow Americans—would understand what their true duty is in accordance with that oath, and act to fulfill that duty.

    I wonder if the SS would be able to protect the President against what he thought was his own military. Of course, the SS also consists of citizens who have taken that same oath, and under the circumstances being described, may very well also choose to obey that oath.
    Last edited by Bob Blaylock; 01-10-13 at 06:59 AM. Reason: A man without a forklift is nothing. May the Forks be with you.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I would refuse to obey this one. I don't know if I would go full rogue, but I would definitely refuse to obey the law.
    As I said before, an executive order is not a law. You would not be disobeying the law by disobeying an executive order. In fact, if that order was to do something illegal or unconstitutional, then you would be disobeying the law if you were to obey such an order.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    As I said before, an executive order is not a law. You would not be disobeying the law by disobeying an executive order. In fact, if that order was to do something illegal or unconstitutional, then you would be disobeying the law if you were to obey such an order.
    For members of the Executive Branch, it is law. It is simply a lower form of law to the Supreme Law of the Land.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    He wasn't threatening to disobey any law. He was threatening to disobey an executive order. The President does not have the authority to unilaterally enact a law. He can only sign a bill into law that is passed by Congress.
    Executive orders have the full force of law: Executive Orders and Proclamations - Wikisource, the free online library

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Actually he is. According to the Supreme Court, all executive officers who swear an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution must therefore have direct access to the Constitution . Goshin, as a Police Officer, and I, as a member of the Armed Forces, are not only allowed, we are required to refuse to enact any order which we perceive as violating the Constitution of the United States of America. Isn't Constitutional History neat?
    Actually, you better guess right in those situations. If you guess wrong, you are a criminal. It is taking a huge risk based on a desire to retain something trivial.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Executive orders are constitutional aren't they?
    They are. But they can only apply to members of the Executive Branch. For example, the President could say "all executive branch civil servants shall wear the color blue". He couldn't say "all citizens shall wear blue".

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Actually, you better guess right in those situations. If you guess wrong, you are a criminal. It is taking a huge risk based on a desire to retain something trivial.
    Second Amendment =/= Trivial. And yeah, there is good reason why we say that you'd better dang well be sure.


    You know, President Wilson once ordered the Marines who guard the White House to go ransack the offices and beat up the editor of a paper who criticized him. To their everlasting credit, they refused - and so their story is told to every recruit who goes through boot camp.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Second Amendment =/= Trivial. And yeah, there is good reason why we say that you'd better dang well be sure.


    You know, President Wilson once ordered the Marines who guard the White House to go ransack the offices and beat up the editor of a paper who criticized him. To their everlasting credit, they refused - and so their story is told to every recruit who goes through boot camp.
    I did not say the second amendment was trivial. That is not the issue. You can protest the second amendment issue equally well with or without whatever guns or hardware would be deemed illegal. The only r4eason to disobey would be a desire to hold onto that hardware, and that reason is trivial.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    A big part of your dilemma stems from the assumption that a tyrannical government would retain the loyalty of the military. The military is not some big, monolithic mindless machine under the government's control. It consists of a very large number of individual American citizens, every one of which has taken an oath to uphold the Constitution and to defend it against all enemies, foreign and domestic. I think it's a safe bet that a very large proportion of these individuals would, if it came to that—a tyrannical government handing down orders to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow Americans, and to make war against their fellow Americans—would understand what their true duty is in accordance with that oath, and act to fulfill that duty.

    I wonder if the SS would be able to protect the President against what he thought was his own military. Of course, the SS also consists of citizens who have taken that same oath, and under the circumstances being described, may very well also choose to obey that oath.
    Good post. I think that if the government tries infringing on our rights, then they have become a hostile domestic enemy of the people of the United States. I'm sure there are PLENTY of military members who would fight to defend the Constitution and our rights.

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