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Republican Party seems as divided, angry as ever

While there are those who feel the Republicans should get their act together the American people decided to vote for more debt, economic lethargy, an uncertain foreign policy and class warfare.

I don't feel this is the fault of the Democrats or the Republicans. It is the present generation of the American people who are to blame for this mess, and their reelection of someone like Barrack Obama only underscores that point.

I think its the fault of democrats and republicans, who are the american people after all. They no longer stand for ideas or principles, just games and power.
 
I had actually hoped with the 2010 midterms the Republicans had found their method of solidifying the disparate groups by having a unified message focusing primarily on fiscal and governmental conservatism. It's the portoin of the platform that generally most of the various groups within the base like to some degree and is least objectable to any particular group. This is different from the Defense and Social aspects of the platform that appeal more heavily to some parts of the base but act as a deterrent for other parts of the base when it's focused on.

I do'nt think it's an argument of moderate vs extreme. I think the idiotic "War on Women" meme and comments on rape that some of the candidates made and similar type things were more damaging then the notion of not raising taxes and cutting spending.

The problem Zyph is that the ultra right-wing evangelical base of the party cares more about the social agenda than they do about anything else. They are killing the GOP from expanding outside the ultra-conservative base. Unless the GOP finds a way to neutralize them or cuts ties with them, the GOP cannot attract the moderates and independents necessary to win a national election.
 
Yea, I thought the rise of the Tea Party would usher in an era of Republicanism that was focused heavily on fiscal conservatism and the general reduction of bloated government.

I abhor that much of it became about forced vaginal probes, irresponsible stances on illegal immigration, and discriminatory views on gays.

Same old Republican party. Willing to sacrifice their principles of limited government and individual choice in the name of legislating morality.

Add in a shameful campaign by the mainstream media to depict all tea partiers as racists bigots (in stark contrast to the vomit freeloaders in OWS who were exalted), and you have Republican dysfunction.
 
I think its the fault of democrats and republicans, who are the american people after all. They no longer stand for ideas or principles, just games and power.

Americans just voted for the biggest spender and borrower in their history when there were alternatives available. They brought it on themselves.

Other countries had to learn the hard way but each country seems to believe they can do socialism better than the other countries which have failed. It just repeats itself everywhere, like any shell game. Only the politicians and big business benefit.
 
Americans just voted for the biggest spender and borrower in their history when there were alternatives available. They brought it on themselves.

Other countries had to learn the hard way but each country seems to believe they can do socialism better than the other countries which have failed. It just repeats itself everywhere, like any shell game. Only the politicians and big business benefit.

Typical american. Blame someone else and ignore your own part in the mess. Obama did not bring this country down. If this country was weak enough that one black man could topple it perhaps it needed to be brought down. Still, until people start recognizing their own part in the problem nothing will happen because they will always be distracted by the blame game.
 
Americans just voted for the biggest spender and borrower in their history when there were alternatives available.
Which alternatives?
 
The AP article here is but one example of "op-ed journalism".... This shouldn't be carried in Breaking news, but in Opinions....But beyond that, The GOP needs to get back to basics, and move away from the practices of being more like democrats, and instead start moving on principle again.

I expect/hope that 2014 ends the conservative,tea bagger debates and that both factions become history book subjects
 
The problem Zyph is that the ultra right-wing evangelical base of the party cares more about the social agenda than they do about anything else. They are killing the GOP from expanding outside the ultra-conservative base. Unless the GOP finds a way to neutralize them or cuts ties with them, the GOP cannot attract the moderates and independents necessary to win a national election.

The irony is that it was Rove who brought the evangelicals into the GOP fold in order to win a couple election in the 90s and 2000s. Now they have doomed the party to marginal status with their weirdness.

But I would note that fiscal conservatism is no less freaky -- the tea party are basically anti-modernists who want to destroy our modern economy based on some bizarre nostalgia for the Guilded Age, 6 day work weeks, child labor, and rivers that used to catch on fire with pollution. Fiscal conservatism, once analyzed, is as freakish as social conservatism.
 
Which alternatives?

Romney, for one, was a far better alternative because he had business experience and had spent much of his career turning distressed companies around, and no one can make the claim that the US is not distressed.

He also demonstrated as Governor that he could get spending under control and work with the opposition. He was obviously the intelligent choice but too many voters became side-tracked on non-issues or wanted to continue their dependence with the food stamp president. The mess he'll leave behind will take decades to repair.
 
Romney, for one,
This Romney? “Cut taxes”, AKA lower revenue, Romney?

He was not going to be balancing anything anytime soon. His earlier promises of how fast the deficit was going to drop were inline with CBO already current predictions . Towards the end of the campaign he was then pushing out the window of deficit reduction even further!
was a far better alternative because he had business experience and had spent much of his career turning distressed companies around, and no one can make the claim that the US is not distressed.
Hey, I bought that line! I thought he might have some executive skills. Turns out Mr. Business could not manage himself out of a wet paper bag.

Ok, so cronyism was an issue.. Still, not getting the job done running a campaign? That is a piss-poor option for someone to run the Executive Branch of the country.

Maybe he had some skills in the past. Maybe it wasn’t largely due to connections via lineage. But whatever he had appears to have seriously waned.
He also demonstrated as Governor that he could get spending under control and work with the opposition.
…by vetoing the crap out stuff the Legislature sent his way, relying on the Legislature to then Super Majority overrule him, and having the fortune of the country’s economy cycling up underneath him.

But so he had that, except he was running as hard as he could away from it.
 
This Romney? “Cut taxes”, AKA lower revenue, Romney?

You must be one of those who believes that higher taxes create higher revenue for the government, and thus the people, and we are therefor better off than with lower taxes rates. What do you think would be an ideal tax rate? 60% 75% 99%?

He was not going to be balancing anything anytime soon.

He was certainly going to move in that direction whereas BHO has no interest in cutting the spending or the debt. It will likely be more that $20,000.000,000.000 by the time he leaves office, and the majority of the American electorate seems okay with this. It is pitiful what happened to this once great nation.

His earlier promises of how fast the deficit was going to drop were inline with CBO already current predictions . Towards the end of the campaign he was then pushing out the window of deficit reduction even further!
It demonstartes that he understood the importance of deficit redcution whereas poor Obama didn;t have a clue. And still doesn't. If BHO deliberately intended to destroy America he would continue doing exactly what he is doing.

Hey, I bought that line! I thought he might have some executive skills. Turns out Mr. Business could not manage himself out of a wet paper bag.

And you feel that this effects the history of the man's successes? Is that an issue on which you would base your vote?

Ok, so cronyism was an issue.. Still, not getting the job done running a campaign? That is a piss-poor option for someone to run the Executive Branch of the country.

Same site and same silliness. is this an issue on which you would place your vote? And as far as cronyism goes, is there any better example than what happened with GM, Ge, Solyndra, and those billions wasted from the "stimulus"? And i think it's safe to say there will be more 'stimu;las spending where more Democrats will be able to line their pockets even further. This is Tammany Hall on a national scale.

Maybe he had some skills in the past. Maybe it wasn’t largely due to connections via lineage. But whatever he had appears to have seriously waned.

Some skills in the past? The man had demonstraed executive skills throughout his business and political career. Meanwhile Barrack has nebver demonstrated any skills in either area. None.

…by vetoing the crap out stuff the Legislature sent his way, relying on the Legislature to then Super Majority overrule him, and having the fortune of the country’s economy cycling up underneath him.

He had a very high approval rating as governor, higher than Barrack Obama ever did in any of his endeavors.

But so he had that, except he was running as hard as he could away from it.

Why would he run away from a record that included the creation of thousands of jobs? What record does Obama have that would ever suggest he is presidential material?
 
I'm kind of interested to see where the GOP ends up in 2014. It's clearly being torn between those who want it to be more moderate and those who want to be more extreme, so it's pretty unclear, to me at least, which way the party leaders will take it. It's funny because after the election, I saw two main responses to Romney's loss from those who voted for him. The first: "This election shows that we need to get more like the Tea Party." The second: "This election shows that we need to get rid of the Tea Party elements." It's amazing to me how GOP voters could come to two completely contradictory conclusions and that signals a real problem for the party leaders because I'm not sure that it can afford to lose either group.

In addition to that particular internal conflict, there is also an internal conflict over how to present the conservative point of view. The election was filled with insults against women, minorities, the poor and other groups. Such insults clearly worked against the GOP when it came to votes. Now, several months after the election, I see a lot of the same insults coming from the GOP constituency and a lot of the same insensitivity coming from party leaders. In other words, a lot of GOP voters/potential voters are still using insulting language and behavior against the people whose votes they need. However, there are also some GOP leaders who have specifically denounced such language and behavior.

In short, there are at least two huge conflicts within the COP: the conflict over where to take policy and the conflict over how to present their point of view. As far as I can tell, there are two main sides in these conflicts: those who favor a more tempered GOP and those who favor a more insolent GOP. I wonder who will win.

Unity is for 1984 style sheep...

Democrats/progressives all think the same because they're a bunch of collectivists that are incapable of individualist thought, republicans/libertarians are divided because they are capable.

You have neo-cons, republicans and libertarians all having different ideas. Some want to "compromise" with the communist collectivists, others have no desire to do such.

Yeah there is conflict, however the conflict is healthy - individualism is healthy.
 
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You must be one of those who believes that higher taxes create higher revenue for the government, and thus the people, and we are therefor better off than with lower taxes rates. What do you think would be an ideal tax rate? 60% 75% 99%?
I am one of those silly people that do math. Why do you think Ryan wouldn’t spit out numbers when pressed on it? Either it was going to translate into lower revenue and/or transfer a higher percentage of the tax load to the middle of the income band. Smart money was on both.

Here is some poking through numbers (note, not by Huffington or RedState or some other total partisan hack).

Who's tax plan is really better for deficit/debt reduction? Let's talk numbers. - Business Insider

And you feel that this effects the history of the man's successes? Is that an issue on which you would base your vote? Same site and same silliness. is this an issue on which you would place your vote?
First, same non-partisan site. It is a technical site. OK, so it is a somewhat libertarian leaning site and has a readin‘ and ‘riting bias. But the staff does indeed span the political parties and it does not really play Team Red, Team Blue favorites.

Second, it is not “silliness”. Cannot run a campaign but wants to run the country? Holy crap on a stick, no. Thousand times no.

Third, that all came out after the elections. Less decision making, more “whew, I guess we dodge a worse bullet than I thought R&R were”.
He had a very high approval rating as governor
Compared to what, GW Bush’s approval numbers at the end of his presidency?

Romney Ended Governorship with 34% Approval Rating | Veracity Stew
Why would he run away from a record that included the creation of thousands of jobs?
Indeed, why would he? Which he did. Things that make you go hmmmmmmm.
What record does Obama have that would ever suggest he is presidential material?
4 years in the big chair, turning around a hellva tough situation. *shrug* Before he was elected, though? His poise, compared to McCain, while the economy was in the midst of imploding. Is that a resounding, cannot miss thing to go by? *shrug* Not really but that is a thing with elections. They are not made-to-order affairs, they are more like sifting through the bargain bin on Dec 26th. ;)
 
Oh, say no more. I was wrong. You leaving the GOP means the GOP is certainly done for.

Er, I think the GOP has other problems besides one person leaving! :mrgreen:
 
Er, I think the GOP has other problems besides one person leaving! :mrgreen:

It's just one of the perils of being a party of people who actually think for themselves. :D
 
The Tea Party isn't the problem at all. "Tea Party" is simply a synonym for "fiscal conservative," and on that note, people are more than willing to line up behind that cause.

No, the Tea Party was subject to a horrendous smear campaign in the last few years. Koch Brothers, Glenn Beck, yada yada yada. There was (and still is) nothing in the original charter that speaks to social issues or a lack of moderation.... unless, of course, you conflate social issues with fiscal irresponsibility (which is a huge part of the smear).

The Republicans need to stop catering to people who think "we need to put Christ back into Christmas." Those people will still vote anti-democrat, but catering to them exclusively doesn't garner anywhere near the number of votes as it drives away. Let go of abortion, let go of gay marriage... and there won't be any more Democrats outside of the West Coast and North East.
 
”Tea Party” is simply a synonym for “fiscal conservative,"
More accurate to say it was a “synonym for Mom & apple pie” cloak that was initially used by a number that were largely somewhere in the fiscal conservative vein harnessing and stoking a vague outrage but then quickly co-opted, as vague outrage movements seem want to be co-opted (e.g. see OWS), and diverged and bent into this, that, and a number of different things.
 
I am one of those silly people that do math. Why do you think Ryan wouldn’t spit out numbers when pressed on it? Either it was going to translate into lower revenue and/or transfer a higher percentage of the tax load to the middle of the income band. Smart money was on both.

Here is some poking through numbers (note, not by Huffington or RedState or some other total partisan hack).

Who's tax plan is really better for deficit/debt reduction? Let's talk numbers. - Business Insider


First, same non-partisan site. It is a technical site. OK, so it is a somewhat libertarian leaning site and has a readin‘ and ‘riting bias. But the staff does indeed span the political parties and it does not really play Team Red, Team Blue favorites.

Second, it is not “silliness”. Cannot run a campaign but wants to run the country? Holy crap on a stick, no. Thousand times no.

Third, that all came out after the elections. Less decision making, more “whew, I guess we dodge a worse bullet than I thought R&R were”.

Compared to what, GW Bush’s approval numbers at the end of his presidency?

Romney Ended Governorship with 34% Approval Rating | Veracity Stew

Indeed, why would he? Which he did. Things that make you go hmmmmmmm.

4 years in the big chair, turning around a hellva tough situation. *shrug* Before he was elected, though? His poise, compared to McCain, while the economy was in the midst of imploding. Is that a resounding, cannot miss thing to go by? *shrug* Not really but that is a thing with elections. They are not made-to-order affairs, they are more like sifting through the bargain bin on Dec 26th. ;)

Yes, he showed "poise".

And he was light skinned. Harry Reid 'Negro' Comment: Reid Apologizes For 'No Negro Dialect' Comment

Geraldine Ferraro had it right. He had no other qualifications. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/12/us/politics/12campaign.html?_r=0
 
Er, I think the GOP has other problems besides one person leaving! :mrgreen:

The Democrats are certainly doing well but the country isn't.

Do party politics come before the country?
 
I think the correct person to ask this would be a Mitch McConnell.



Except I didn't ask Mitch McConnell because he's not part of this DP Board. i asked you.

If you don't know the answer it's okay.
 
Except I didn't ask Mitch McConnell because he's not part of this DP Board. i asked you.

If you don't know the answer it's okay.

No you didn't. You asked mertex... then made this dodge post I'm quoting.
 
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