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Thread: Republican Party seems as divided, angry as ever

  1. #61
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    Re: Republican Party seems as divided, angry as ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Romney, for one,
    This Romney? “Cut taxes”, AKA lower revenue, Romney?

    He was not going to be balancing anything anytime soon. His earlier promises of how fast the deficit was going to drop were inline with CBO already current predictions . Towards the end of the campaign he was then pushing out the window of deficit reduction even further!
    was a far better alternative because he had business experience and had spent much of his career turning distressed companies around, and no one can make the claim that the US is not distressed.
    Hey, I bought that line! I thought he might have some executive skills. Turns out Mr. Business could not manage himself out of a wet paper bag.

    Ok, so cronyism was an issue.. Still, not getting the job done running a campaign? That is a piss-poor option for someone to run the Executive Branch of the country.

    Maybe he had some skills in the past. Maybe it wasn’t largely due to connections via lineage. But whatever he had appears to have seriously waned.
    He also demonstrated as Governor that he could get spending under control and work with the opposition.
    …by vetoing the crap out stuff the Legislature sent his way, relying on the Legislature to then Super Majority overrule him, and having the fortune of the country’s economy cycling up underneath him.

    But so he had that, except he was running as hard as he could away from it.

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    Re: Republican Party seems as divided, angry as ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
    This Romney? “Cut taxes”, AKA lower revenue, Romney?
    You must be one of those who believes that higher taxes create higher revenue for the government, and thus the people, and we are therefor better off than with lower taxes rates. What do you think would be an ideal tax rate? 60% 75% 99%?

    He was not going to be balancing anything anytime soon.
    He was certainly going to move in that direction whereas BHO has no interest in cutting the spending or the debt. It will likely be more that $20,000.000,000.000 by the time he leaves office, and the majority of the American electorate seems okay with this. It is pitiful what happened to this once great nation.

    His earlier promises of how fast the deficit was going to drop were inline with CBO already current predictions . Towards the end of the campaign he was then pushing out the window of deficit reduction even further!
    It demonstartes that he understood the importance of deficit redcution whereas poor Obama didn;t have a clue. And still doesn't. If BHO deliberately intended to destroy America he would continue doing exactly what he is doing.

    Hey, I bought that line! I thought he might have some executive skills. Turns out Mr. Business could not manage himself out of a wet paper bag.
    And you feel that this effects the history of the man's successes? Is that an issue on which you would base your vote?

    Ok, so cronyism was an issue.. Still, not getting the job done running a campaign? That is a piss-poor option for someone to run the Executive Branch of the country.
    Same site and same silliness. is this an issue on which you would place your vote? And as far as cronyism goes, is there any better example than what happened with GM, Ge, Solyndra, and those billions wasted from the "stimulus"? And i think it's safe to say there will be more 'stimu;las spending where more Democrats will be able to line their pockets even further. This is Tammany Hall on a national scale.

    Maybe he had some skills in the past. Maybe it wasn’t largely due to connections via lineage. But whatever he had appears to have seriously waned.
    Some skills in the past? The man had demonstraed executive skills throughout his business and political career. Meanwhile Barrack has nebver demonstrated any skills in either area. None.

    …by vetoing the crap out stuff the Legislature sent his way, relying on the Legislature to then Super Majority overrule him, and having the fortune of the country’s economy cycling up underneath him.
    He had a very high approval rating as governor, higher than Barrack Obama ever did in any of his endeavors.

    But so he had that, except he was running as hard as he could away from it.
    Why would he run away from a record that included the creation of thousands of jobs? What record does Obama have that would ever suggest he is presidential material?

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    Re: Republican Party seems as divided, angry as ever

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I'm kind of interested to see where the GOP ends up in 2014. It's clearly being torn between those who want it to be more moderate and those who want to be more extreme, so it's pretty unclear, to me at least, which way the party leaders will take it. It's funny because after the election, I saw two main responses to Romney's loss from those who voted for him. The first: "This election shows that we need to get more like the Tea Party." The second: "This election shows that we need to get rid of the Tea Party elements." It's amazing to me how GOP voters could come to two completely contradictory conclusions and that signals a real problem for the party leaders because I'm not sure that it can afford to lose either group.

    In addition to that particular internal conflict, there is also an internal conflict over how to present the conservative point of view. The election was filled with insults against women, minorities, the poor and other groups. Such insults clearly worked against the GOP when it came to votes. Now, several months after the election, I see a lot of the same insults coming from the GOP constituency and a lot of the same insensitivity coming from party leaders. In other words, a lot of GOP voters/potential voters are still using insulting language and behavior against the people whose votes they need. However, there are also some GOP leaders who have specifically denounced such language and behavior.

    In short, there are at least two huge conflicts within the COP: the conflict over where to take policy and the conflict over how to present their point of view. As far as I can tell, there are two main sides in these conflicts: those who favor a more tempered GOP and those who favor a more insolent GOP. I wonder who will win.
    Unity is for 1984 style sheep...

    Democrats/progressives all think the same because they're a bunch of collectivists that are incapable of individualist thought, republicans/libertarians are divided because they are capable.

    You have neo-cons, republicans and libertarians all having different ideas. Some want to "compromise" with the communist collectivists, others have no desire to do such.

    Yeah there is conflict, however the conflict is healthy - individualism is healthy.

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    Re: Republican Party seems as divided, angry as ever

    <double post>
    Last edited by Dwight; 01-08-13 at 04:40 PM.

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    Re: Republican Party seems as divided, angry as ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    You must be one of those who believes that higher taxes create higher revenue for the government, and thus the people, and we are therefor better off than with lower taxes rates. What do you think would be an ideal tax rate? 60% 75% 99%?
    I am one of those silly people that do math. Why do you think Ryan wouldn’t spit out numbers when pressed on it? Either it was going to translate into lower revenue and/or transfer a higher percentage of the tax load to the middle of the income band. Smart money was on both.

    Here is some poking through numbers (note, not by Huffington or RedState or some other total partisan hack).

    Who's tax plan is really better for deficit/debt reduction? Let's talk numbers. - Business Insider

    And you feel that this effects the history of the man's successes? Is that an issue on which you would base your vote? Same site and same silliness. is this an issue on which you would place your vote?
    First, same non-partisan site. It is a technical site. OK, so it is a somewhat libertarian leaning site and has a readin‘ and ‘riting bias. But the staff does indeed span the political parties and it does not really play Team Red, Team Blue favorites.

    Second, it is not “silliness”. Cannot run a campaign but wants to run the country? Holy crap on a stick, no. Thousand times no.

    Third, that all came out after the elections. Less decision making, more “whew, I guess we dodge a worse bullet than I thought R&R were”.
    He had a very high approval rating as governor
    Compared to what, GW Bush’s approval numbers at the end of his presidency?

    Romney Ended Governorship with 34% Approval Rating | Veracity Stew
    Why would he run away from a record that included the creation of thousands of jobs?
    Indeed, why would he? Which he did. Things that make you go hmmmmmmm.
    What record does Obama have that would ever suggest he is presidential material?
    4 years in the big chair, turning around a hellva tough situation. *shrug* Before he was elected, though? His poise, compared to McCain, while the economy was in the midst of imploding. Is that a resounding, cannot miss thing to go by? *shrug* Not really but that is a thing with elections. They are not made-to-order affairs, they are more like sifting through the bargain bin on Dec 26th.

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    Re: Republican Party seems as divided, angry as ever

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Oh, say no more. I was wrong. You leaving the GOP means the GOP is certainly done for.
    Er, I think the GOP has other problems besides one person leaving!



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





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    Re: Republican Party seems as divided, angry as ever

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    Er, I think the GOP has other problems besides one person leaving!
    It's just one of the perils of being a party of people who actually think for themselves.

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    Re: Republican Party seems as divided, angry as ever

    The Tea Party isn't the problem at all. "Tea Party" is simply a synonym for "fiscal conservative," and on that note, people are more than willing to line up behind that cause.

    No, the Tea Party was subject to a horrendous smear campaign in the last few years. Koch Brothers, Glenn Beck, yada yada yada. There was (and still is) nothing in the original charter that speaks to social issues or a lack of moderation.... unless, of course, you conflate social issues with fiscal irresponsibility (which is a huge part of the smear).

    The Republicans need to stop catering to people who think "we need to put Christ back into Christmas." Those people will still vote anti-democrat, but catering to them exclusively doesn't garner anywhere near the number of votes as it drives away. Let go of abortion, let go of gay marriage... and there won't be any more Democrats outside of the West Coast and North East.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    Re: Republican Party seems as divided, angry as ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    ”Tea Party” is simply a synonym for “fiscal conservative,"
    More accurate to say it was a “synonym for Mom & apple pie” cloak that was initially used by a number that were largely somewhere in the fiscal conservative vein harnessing and stoking a vague outrage but then quickly co-opted, as vague outrage movements seem want to be co-opted (e.g. see OWS), and diverged and bent into this, that, and a number of different things.

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    Re: Republican Party seems as divided, angry as ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
    I am one of those silly people that do math. Why do you think Ryan wouldn’t spit out numbers when pressed on it? Either it was going to translate into lower revenue and/or transfer a higher percentage of the tax load to the middle of the income band. Smart money was on both.

    Here is some poking through numbers (note, not by Huffington or RedState or some other total partisan hack).

    Who's tax plan is really better for deficit/debt reduction? Let's talk numbers. - Business Insider


    First, same non-partisan site. It is a technical site. OK, so it is a somewhat libertarian leaning site and has a readin‘ and ‘riting bias. But the staff does indeed span the political parties and it does not really play Team Red, Team Blue favorites.

    Second, it is not “silliness”. Cannot run a campaign but wants to run the country? Holy crap on a stick, no. Thousand times no.

    Third, that all came out after the elections. Less decision making, more “whew, I guess we dodge a worse bullet than I thought R&R were”.

    Compared to what, GW Bush’s approval numbers at the end of his presidency?

    Romney Ended Governorship with 34% Approval Rating | Veracity Stew

    Indeed, why would he? Which he did. Things that make you go hmmmmmmm.

    4 years in the big chair, turning around a hellva tough situation. *shrug* Before he was elected, though? His poise, compared to McCain, while the economy was in the midst of imploding. Is that a resounding, cannot miss thing to go by? *shrug* Not really but that is a thing with elections. They are not made-to-order affairs, they are more like sifting through the bargain bin on Dec 26th.
    Yes, he showed "poise".

    And he was light skinned. Harry Reid 'Negro' Comment: Reid Apologizes For 'No Negro Dialect' Comment

    Geraldine Ferraro had it right. He had no other qualifications. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/12/us...aign.html?_r=0

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