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Thread: Health care law may mean less hiring in 2013

  1. #121
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    Re: Health care law may mean less hiring in 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, it's pretty ad hoc here. Can you tell me, for example, if what is passed on from those who don't pay to those who pay is equal to what passing on actually costs providers?

    Americans have been for this lack of a system for a long, long time. Whatever follows won't be perfect, but you'd be hard pressed to do worse than we do in terms of cost and access.
    It will be much worse and the direction the government should have gone in was more freedom of choice, more competition, not less. But the government, especially this one, is all about control. Now they have it, and you don't. You will learn later.

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    Re: Health care law may mean less hiring in 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    You guys elected....TWICE...the least qualified ex-stoner candidate who came into office with a anti-America chip on his shoulder.
    He's at least as qualified as the ex-coke head candidate who came into office with an anti-Republic chip on his shoulder, grew the government at phenomenal rates, exploded debt, started undeclared occupational wars in foreign lands, etc. We elected that guy twice 2. So seems like we're just par for the course.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #123
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    Re: Health care law may mean less hiring in 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
    You said “industrial power quality problems”. That implies at
    least coming close to serious, cook-your-beans voltage+amps+Hz-that-like-flesh. I am just being nice trying to come up with some plausible excuse for your near illiteracy, such as…

    “Electronic/Computer degree guy”. Including process control systems at one point (petrochemical largely) but I moved more into software over time.

    I said no such thing, how ever I am convinced that:
    1) the US system as it is horribly inefficient, by comparison to what has been implement elsewhere
    2) that you are entirely off base in your assertions against a government option
    3) that, hope and wish as you might, any particular solution that is going to bring about significant improvement is going to require some sort of change in government

    Umm, I already pointed you in the direction of models to study. Unless you are convinced that everything outside the US borders are “Democrat lies”? At which point I would need to leave you to your tin foil hat and cat herds…
    Why would I need insulated pliers to analyze 3 phase power quality issues ? Which is just part of what I do.

    If I'm "illiterate" please explain why ? Personally it sounds like you took the easy road and went into software and "computers".

    I agree, not everyone has the base IQ to wind up at a test bench where your day is spent troubleshooting discreet and analog compound electronic circuits and building test devices for specific applications on the fly.

    Rabid Alpaca's another electronics guru on this sight.

    Lemme' guess, you think like so many we reverse engineered some space craft in the 50's and thats led to our current technological condition.

    Even when prior to solid state, TUBES basically served the same function as transistors.

    Because you have yet to provide any data that would support the viabillity of single payer.

  4. #124
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    Re: Health care law may mean less hiring in 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, it's pretty ad hoc here. Can you tell me, for example, if what is passed on from those who don't pay to those who pay is equal to what passing on actually costs providers?

    Americans have been for this lack of a system for a long, long time. Whatever follows won't be perfect, but you'd be hard pressed to do worse than we do in terms of cost and access.
    What are you talking about? If I want a pack of hot dogs, I go to (access) the store and buy (pay the cost of) those hot dogs. If I want a cut stitched up, I go to (access) the clinic/hospital and buy (pay the cost of) treatment. The nonsense is now that if you cannot (or simply will not) pay the cost of a good/service that is deemed to be "denying you access" to that good/service. Pure BS, as you are never turned away from the source (denied access) you are simply not allowed to steal (get goods/services for free). Unlike the hot dogs, that one gets "free" by applying for a SNAP card, the stitches are "free" by gov't mandate in the ER or now with the added cost of "private" insurance overhead and profit. It is just plain lying, that adding PPACA mandated insurance overhead and profit to already "free" care is going to save any money (cost) or add any access.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  5. #125
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    Re: Health care law may mean less hiring in 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    He's at least as qualified as the ex-coke head candidate who came into office with an anti-Republic chip on his shoulder, grew the government at phenomenal rates, exploded debt, started undeclared occupational wars in foreign lands, etc. We elected that guy twice 2. So seems like we're just par for the course.
    Bush started undeclared wars ? The one's he got Congressional approval for ? And ex-coke head is a little low. you have any proof ?
    The New Democratic Party Slogan :

    " Return to Power By Any Means Necessary "

  6. #126
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    Re: Health care law may mean less hiring in 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Bush started undeclared wars ? The one's he got Congressional approval for ? And ex-coke head is a little low. you have any proof ?
    Please, deflect away from his cocaine use, whatever. Next is that he was never an alcoholic. And yes, he started undeclared wars as we have no Declaration of War issued against the government of Iraq.

    So is deflection all you have to support our other abhorrent President who didn't give 2 ****s about the Constitution?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Health care law may mean less hiring in 2013

    Sux seeing such important discussions become so focused on ideology and political viewpoints. If we focused the discussion on what has worked better than our system, now and in the past, many of these talking points on both sides become completely moot. There are plenty of models to examine around the world that have been heavily studied... Ideology and political affiliation is counter productive to a reasonable debate seeking a solution. Insulting Liberals or bringing Bush into the conversation seems about as productive as calling each other nazis.

    The solutions are out there and have been well documented. Americans are passified by the political debate, but not really interested in seeing why other countries get better better care at lower per person costs. It's more fun to try and blow holes in the facts and try to debunk the studies done.

    Sorry... really losing my faith lately. Carry on. I'll find another thread to read.

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    Re: Health care law may mean less hiring in 2013

    Business ALWAYS has min. number of employees.

    And reducing hours does not matter, they will STILL get healthcare at a affordable price. All that happens is they avoid the fine.
    HC or not is based on income, not any hours worked. If you make 100% of poverty, you get HC.

  9. #129
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    Re: Health care law may mean less hiring in 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    What are you talking about? If I want a pack of hot dogs, I go to (access) the store and buy (pay the cost of) those hot dogs. If I want a cut stitched up, I go to (access) the clinic/hospital and buy (pay the cost of) treatment. The nonsense is now that if you cannot (or simply will not) pay the cost of a good/service that is deemed to be "denying you access" to that good/service. Pure BS, as you are never turned away from the source (denied access) you are simply not allowed to steal (get goods/services for free). Unlike the hot dogs, that one gets "free" by applying for a SNAP card, the stitches are "free" by gov't mandate in the ER or now with the added cost of "private" insurance overhead and profit. It is just plain lying, that adding PPACA mandated insurance overhead and profit to already "free" care is going to save any money (cost) or add any access.
    A hot dog is cheap, and if I can't afford it, I'll eat what I have at home, no problem. If my daughter has a serious illness or injury, and I can't afford it, that is an unacceptable situation. Healthcare is not like other market services or widgets. Health is much more important, not something you can always barter. And as a people, and rightly I think, we're not willing to turn people in need away. So no matter how we debate it, absent, that cost will be assed along. The question is do we do it systematically, or ad hoc? Pay more less, or less for more?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #130
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    Re: Health care law may mean less hiring in 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    A hot dog is cheap, and if I can't afford it, I'll eat what I have at home, no problem. If my daughter has a serious illness or injury, and I can't afford it, that is an unacceptable situation. Healthcare is not like other market services or widgets. Health is much more important, not something you can always barter. And as a people, and rightly I think, we're not willing to turn people in need away. So no matter how we debate it, absent, that cost will be assed along. The question is do we do it systematically, or ad hoc? Pay more less, or less for more?
    You are right that health care is important. Far too important to be put in the hands of government.

    The reason health care is expensive is because there is little competition. Whenever there is a middleman costs go up and services decline.

    Once the bureaucracy gets legs it will be too expensive for everyone.

    No free lunch, remember?

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