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Thread: Tom DeLay Sentenced To 3 Years In Prison

  1. #181
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    Re: Tom DeLay Sentenced To 3 Years In Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Doesn't the phrase "lucky enough to beat the charges" really mean "not convicted of wrongdoing"?
    And, do Republicans want to censure other Republicans who have not been convicted of wrongdoing?

    why would they do that, it makes no sense.

    I think the wealthy and powerful who commit money crimes should be given an out, a way to avoid jail time (after they're convicted, of course. Before, they're innocent, regardless of political party).

    They should be allowed to, instead of costing the taxpayer fifty grand or so a year for jail, go out and get a minimum wage job and live on that salary, and that salary alone, for a year.

    No big house, no fancy car, no Armani suits, no being called Mr. and Sir, just go to work five or six days a week and live on the proceeds of $7 and change an hour, less payroll taxes of course.

    Taxpayers would save, the perp would learn something about finances and how the other half lives, and justice would be served. It would be a win-win situation.
    But then you still have the cry from people saying that the justice system is tilted toward the rich, allowing them to avoid jail time....No, Equal justice under the law.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  2. #182
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    Re: Tom DeLay Sentenced To 3 Years In Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    But then you still have the cry from people saying that the justice system is tilted toward the rich, allowing them to avoid jail time....No, Equal justice under the law.
    They will whine and cry about that, anyway, so ignore them.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Tom DeLay Sentenced To 3 Years In Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    They will whine and cry about that, anyway, so ignore them.

    Yes, but don't they have a point if the treatment under the law is different for a wealthy congress critter that breaks the law, and that of the average schmuck that gets busted doing the same?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Tom DeLay Sentenced To 3 Years In Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yes, but don't they have a point if the treatment under the law is different for a wealthy congress critter that breaks the law, and that of the average schmuck that gets busted doing the same?
    Oh, the same offer should be made to anyone who commits white collar crime to inflate an already above average income, not just members of Congress. Even the "average schmuck" is going to find living on minimum to be quite an adjustment.

    But, there is a point there. The guy already living on minimum wage or just above who steals something should have an alternative as well. I'm not sure just what it should be, though.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Tom DeLay Sentenced To 3 Years In Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Oh, the same offer should be made to anyone who commits white collar crime to inflate an already above average income, not just members of Congress. Even the "average schmuck" is going to find living on minimum to be quite an adjustment.

    But, there is a point there. The guy already living on minimum wage or just above who steals something should have an alternative as well. I'm not sure just what it should be, though.
    I don't think that tinkering with the punishment portion of justice is the answer....We are a country that takes pride in equal justice under the law, we should hold true to that.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Tom DeLay Sentenced To 3 Years In Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I don't think that tinkering with the punishment portion of justice is the answer....We are a country that takes pride in equal justice under the law, we should hold true to that.
    Equal justice under the law is an ideal never realized. The accused who can afford a fancy lawyer is much less likely to be convicted of serious crime than the poor schmuck who has to rely on a public defender.

    But, if equal justice is the goal, then let's make the living on minimum wage apply to everyone. The petty thief who has never held a job could learn something by actually having to work for a living, too.

    and the rich an powerful who just had to be a bit richer and more powerful through illicit means could rub shoulders with the petty thief, and find that they're really not so different. It could be a learning experience all the way around.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Tom DeLay Sentenced To 3 Years In Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Equal justice under the law is an ideal never realized. The accused who can afford a fancy lawyer is much less likely to be convicted of serious crime than the poor schmuck who has to rely on a public defender.
    No system in the world is perfect is it?

    But, if equal justice is the goal, then let's make the living on minimum wage apply to everyone. The petty thief who has never held a job could learn something by actually having to work for a living, too.
    Is the ability in America to attain wealth a bad thing in your eyes or something?

    and the rich an powerful who just had to be a bit richer and more powerful through illicit means could rub shoulders with the petty thief, and find that they're really not so different. It could be a learning experience all the way around.
    The bold part is the crux of the discussion between us then Ditto. What are the "illicit means" you are talking about?

    And if we agree on that part then I say let em 'rub shoulders' in jail.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Tom DeLay Sentenced To 3 Years In Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No system in the world is perfect is it?
    Not in this life, no.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Is the ability in America to attain wealth a bad thing in your eyes or something?
    No, not the ability to attain wealth. It is not money, but the love of money that is the root of evil. When people put money ahead of honor and family to the point of breaking the law to obtain more of it, that is a bad thing.



    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    The bold part is the crux of the discussion between us then Ditto. What are the "illicit means" you are talking about?
    I'm talking about the sort of thing that Delay was accused of, acquiring additional wealth by illegal means.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    And if we agree on that part then I say let em 'rub shoulders' in jail.
    Being confined to a jail cell is not the same as living in the real world. People who are used to living large, yet who resort to breaking the law to get even more, need to learn what it is like to work an entry level job and live on a very modest income. They'd be better for it in the end, and the taxpayer wouldn't be paying for them to languish in jail. I'd call it rehabilitation. After they've learned, perhaps they could go back and contribute something useful to society.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Tom DeLay Sentenced To 3 Years In Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Not in this life, no.
    Agreed.

    No, not the ability to attain wealth. It is not money, but the love of money that is the root of evil. When people put money ahead of honor and family to the point of breaking the law to obtain more of it, that is a bad thing.
    Also agreed, however, one is presumed innocent before the law until proven guilty. That is the standard. Those who don't do things the right way, the moral way are more often than not dealt with, if not by law, then by karma.

    I'm talking about the sort of thing that Delay was accused of, acquiring additional wealth by illegal means.
    There is that pesky presumption of innocence thing out there though.

    Being confined to a jail cell is not the same as living in the real world. People who are used to living large, yet who resort to breaking the law to get even more, need to learn what it is like to work an entry level job and live on a very modest income. They'd be better for it in the end, and the taxpayer wouldn't be paying for them to languish in jail. I'd call it rehabilitation. After they've learned, perhaps they could go back and contribute something useful to society.
    Doing such may make you feel better, but it really won't do anything to change the mindset of people like this...They will simply do what they have to in order to get back to where they were, and they'll be able to say I was never imprisoned for my misdeeds....I am just not sure that doing things that are emotionally gratifying to us, is a proper carriage of justice.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Tom DeLay Sentenced To 3 Years In Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Agreed.



    Also agreed, however, one is presumed innocent before the law until proven guilty. That is the standard. Those who don't do things the right way, the moral way are more often than not dealt with, if not by law, then by karma.



    There is that pesky presumption of innocence thing out there though.
    Of course. I'm not advocating any departure from the principle of innocent until proven guilty. Punishment follows conviction, not accusation.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Doing such may make you feel better, but it really won't do anything to change the mindset of people like this...They will simply do what they have to in order to get back to where they were, and they'll be able to say I was never imprisoned for my misdeeds....I am just not sure that doing things that are emotionally gratifying to us, is a proper carriage of justice.
    Spending time locked up is not going to do anything to change their mindset. Learning a bit about hard work and the value of money just might, however.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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