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Thread: Job growth cools slightly, recovery grinds on [W:225]

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    re: Job growth cools slightly, recovery grinds on [W:225]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Yes, and it does that by destroying jobs elsewhere. If I take a dollar from your pocket and put it in mine, I haven't created any wealth.
    During Obama's first term, he didn't raise taxes, he cut taxes. for the most part, taxes under Obama were substantially the same as under Bush, and lower under bush than under Clinton when we had a better economy and a balanced budget.

    You can't blame the slow recovery on high taxes.

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    re: Job growth cools slightly, recovery grinds on [W:225]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    There are people who are employed and people who are unemployed. It is important to understand the distinction between the two before we break them down into different groups and categories. The reason for that is because when one gets too high and the other gets too low then the entire economy could be in jeopardy.
    And there are also people who are Not in the Labor Force and people Not in the Population.
    The whole point of any definition is for it to be actually useful for your purposes. If you call everyone not working Unemployed than employment could rise, people looking for work could go down, and the unemployment would still be huge due to more babies and more retirees. That doesn't give a good picture of what the actual jobs market looks like.

    By looking at how many people actually available to work are failing to get jobs, we can tell how the labor market is. Including people who can't work or don't want to work (or who face significant barriers to entry/exit) just distorts the picture.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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    re: Job growth cools slightly, recovery grinds on [W:225]

    Quote Originally Posted by hfd View Post
    Just so I understand. Those who don't work are not unemployed and the libs depend on the military to increase job growth. Got it.
    Just a suggestion, but there is probably a community college in your area that offers an Econ 101 class. You might want to take it.

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    re: Job growth cools slightly, recovery grinds on [W:225]

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    I don't have a timeline in front of me, but my memory tells me that the recession officially ended a month or two after the stimulous bill was passed, unemployment started to recover a few months after that.
    The recession by all technical terms ended in June 2009, roughly four months after the ARRA was signed into law. Unemployment, however continued to rise, peaked in October, and began to decline as the major chunks of ARRA funding was actually put into play the following year.

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    re: Job growth cools slightly, recovery grinds on [W:225]

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    The recession by all technical terms ended in June 2009, roughly four months after the ARRA was signed into law. Unemployment, however continued to rise, peaked in October, and began to decline as the major chunks of ARRA funding was actually put into play the following year.
    Thanks for confirming me.

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    re: Job growth cools slightly, recovery grinds on [W:225]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Yes, and it does that by destroying jobs elsewhere. If I take a dollar from your pocket and put it in mine, I haven't created any wealth.
    You're making the assumption that the entirety of said dollars would've otherwise been placed back into circulation in a manner conducive to employment growth. Not all transactions are created equal.

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    re: Job growth cools slightly, recovery grinds on [W:225]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Obama has done EVERYTHING under the sun to help stimulate the economy. Sorry to burst your bubble, but cutting government expenditures with persistent levels of high unemployment is the worst thing you can do.
    I agree, with the caveat that cuts are going to have to come eventually.

    this is what I'd like to see : a WPA program that comes into effect automatically every time 2008 happens, and expires gradually as the economy recovers. no congressional vote necessary; an automatic parachute. had we done that in 2008, I expect things might be a bit different now.

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    re: Job growth cools slightly, recovery grinds on [W:225]

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    And there are also people who are Not in the Labor Force and people Not in the Population.
    The whole point of any definition is for it to be actually useful for your purposes. If you call everyone not working Unemployed than employment could rise, people looking for work could go down, and the unemployment would still be huge due to more babies and more retirees. That doesn't give a good picture of what the actual jobs market looks like.

    By looking at how many people actually available to work are failing to get jobs, we can tell how the labor market is. Including people who can't work or don't want to work (or who face significant barriers to entry/exit) just distorts the picture.
    It doesn't distort any picture because there is more than one picture. There are many ways to measure unemployment and this is just one of them. it's important in demographics for people to understand how many people will be working and how many people who will not be working. Can those who are not working be supported and sustained by those who are working? What is the ratios before problems arise? These are important issues as well.

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    re: Job growth cools slightly, recovery grinds on [W:225]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Actually, they are not doing this in Europe.
    They are reducing the size and scope of government representation of their respective economies. That action HAS TO reduce economic output (given the current state of the global macro economy) if they were running fiscal deficits. No debating this point.

    1. Reduce government spending drastically.
    If running a fiscal deficit, it will reduce output given the current state of the global macro economy.


    2. Cut or eliminate Departments and Agencies.
    This will increase unemployment.

    3. Reduce the regulatory burden placed on the country by the federal government.
    A generic talking point. What does reducing the regulatory burden actually encompass? Oh i get it, you want private industry to have a greater ability to use people (labor) as a means to an ends.

    4. Totally reworking the tax code...removing all social and behavior inducing provisions. It's okay to have a progressive system...but get rid of all deductions, credits, etc. Reduce or increase the percentages to generate the needed revenue to pay for government spending. This should be done after the above three items.
    Increase taxes... got it!

    But...as I said...getting the government to reduce itself won't easily happen.
    It will never happen to the extent you desire, mostly because it is an extreme right of center desire.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    re: Job growth cools slightly, recovery grinds on [W:225]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It doesn't distort any picture because there is more than one picture.
    Ok, let's say you expand the definition to everyone in the entire population who is not employed. You now have one picture...employed out of total population.


    There are many ways to measure unemployment and this is just one of them.
    Pretty much everyone in the world uses the ILO definition of actively looking for work.

    [qutoe] it's important in demographics for people to understand how many people will be working and how many people who will not be working. [/quote]
    Sure, but you don't need to change the definition of unemployment to see that. And by expanding it to all not working, you cannot tell who will or will not be working. You can't tell who wants to work, who is available, or what anyone is doing about working.

    Can those who are not working be supported and sustained by those who are working? What is the ratios before problems arise? These are important issues as well.
    They are. And they are studied. Expanding the definition of unemployed would actually hurt researching those issues. As it is, we can look at who is working, who is looking for work, who might start looking for work, who doesn't want to work etc. That would be a lot harder to do if you simply grouped everyone together as "unemployed."
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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