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Thread: Job growth cools slightly, recovery grinds on [W:225]

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    re: Job growth cools slightly, recovery grinds on [W:225]

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The Bush Housing bubble was the cause of the rise and fall of construction spending and employment. Where were you in 2002-2007? On Mars?
    And why is construction hit hardest in all recessions?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    re: Job growth cools slightly, recovery grinds on [W:225]

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Then that represents little change. About half of our citizens work, and about half don't. I'm not surprised by this at all.

    Or am I just missing your underlying point?
    That 4.5% decrease represents over 360 thousand unemployed people. When corrective policy is put into effect and/or a recession ends, the percentage of eligible workers who are employed always increases in the years that follow, as long as effective policy decisions are made. That's what a RECOVERY is all about.

    Just compare the Obama recovery to the previous 3 economic downturns, and you will see a stark contrast:


    ep_ratio4.jpg

    3 year results:

    Reagan - 3% increase
    Bush Sr. - 2% increase
    Bush Jr. - 2% increase
    Obama - Nada
    Last edited by Grim17; 01-05-13 at 04:55 PM.

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    re: Job growth cools slightly, recovery grinds on [W:225]

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    If A causes B, then A must precede B.
    No, they can happen simultaniously, especially when they are largely the same thing. In this case, B is a subset of A.

    Now lets say that C is the amount of tshirts ordered at my store, and D is the amount of tshirts that I sell.

    C and D will always exactly match., yet C controls D. The amount of shirts that people purchase from me control the amount of shirts that I sell as I can't sell more than people buy.

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    re: Job growth cools slightly, recovery grinds on [W:225]

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    This does not mean what you think it does.

    1. Skilled Trades - Jacquelyn Smith From Campus to Career - Forbes

    Manpower conducts annual surveys, and for the 4th straight year, skilled trades was at (or near) the top of the list for the hardest positions to fill. Whether or not the employment rate changes has nothing to do with the fact there there is a shortage of skilled tradesman, namely welders.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    re: Job growth cools slightly, recovery grinds on [W:225]

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    The median household income hasn't increased as much as during the 2000's (I don't know, that's just a guess).

    Seriously, the 10% increase in productivity in just four years is huge. Here is another chart showing what I am talking about
    It's the same pace as the 2000s. You call it high, the chart says it's normal.

    Also, the labor participation rate dropped during the entire 2000's, even before the recession.
    Not nearly as much as it did when productivity was decreasing!

    Increases in productivity are simply happening at a faster rate than increases in demand. Chart out the trend for another 50 or 100 years and our labor force participation rate may be down to almost nothing.
    The problem is not demand, since that doesn't explain why higher orders of production are hit harder than lower orders of production. The insufficient demand theory doesn't explain why different industries are hit differently.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    re: Job growth cools slightly, recovery grinds on [W:225]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    That 4.5% decrease represents over 360 thousand unemployed people. When corrective policy is put into effect and/or a recession ends, the percentage of eligible workers who are employed always increases in the years that follow, as long as effective policy decisions are made. That's what a RECOVERY is all about.

    Just compare the Obama recovery to the previous 3 economic downturns, and you will see a stark contrast:


    ep_ratio4.jpg
    The previous economic downturns did not result in a 20% (or greater) decline in overall wealth. Not to mention structural shifts. FAIL (again)!
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    re: Job growth cools slightly, recovery grinds on [W:225]

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    No, they can happen simultaniously, especially when they are largely the same thing. In this case, B is a subset of A.
    A causes B.

    Now lets say that C is the amount of tshirts ordered at my store, and D is the amount of tshirts that I sell.

    C and D will always exactly match., yet C controls D. The amount of shirts that people purchase from me control the amount of shirts that I sell as I can't sell more than people buy.
    C and D are the same.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    re: Job growth cools slightly, recovery grinds on [W:225]

    Do you remember back in 2008 when John McCain said "The fundamentals of our economy are still strong" and he was laughed at and ridiculed, clearly out of touch with the world?

    And then do you remember a week later when an Obama campaign adviser said the exact same thing, and was praised and lauded as an economic visionary, a sage foretelling the greatness of Obama if elected?

    Do you remember Obama's speech in 2009 that bespoke the "core strengths" of our economy?

    Do you remember back to June of this year when Obama said "the private sector is doing fine"?

    It's all a confidence game. If people believe the market is doing well, or is poised to do well, or will do well in the future, then that's exactly what it's going to do. Likewise, if people think the economy is doing poorly, or is poised to do poorly, or will do poorly in the future, then that is what it is going to do instead. So, when the market was supposedly in free fall back in 2008, and Obama campaigned on the fact that the sky was literally falling.... that rhetoric had something to do with just how far it fell. And now that Obama is in power, and has been for a whole term, he wants you to have confidence in it, support it, invest in it, make it grow.

    Why didn't he want that to happen in 2008, I wonder?
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    re: Job growth cools slightly, recovery grinds on [W:225]

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The Bush Housing bubble was the cause of the rise and fall of construction
    spending and employment. Where were you in 2002-2007? On Mars?
    If he was on MARS you had your head up URANUS....

    The sub-prime debacle started in the early 90s as Clinton and Liberal Democrats forced lending by regulatory control given to them under CRA and HUD.

    You didnt mention the NY Times article in 2003 that showed Bush trying to reign in the GSEs but unsuccessfully with a Democrat Congress.

    I swear to be a liberal you have to be purposely ignorant and corrupt.

    The housing bubble was mandated by the Democrats.
    Last edited by Fenton; 01-05-13 at 05:04 PM.

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    re: Job growth cools slightly, recovery grinds on [W:225]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    The previous economic downturns did not result in a 20% (or greater) decline in overall wealth. Not to mention structural shifts. FAIL (again)!
    Arguably the fall in 1921 was much greater.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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