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Thread: Federal judge rules EPA overstepped authority trying to regulate water as pollutant i

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    Re: Federal judge rules EPA overstepped authority trying to regulate water as polluta

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
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    I stand corrected.

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    Re: Federal judge rules EPA overstepped authority trying to regulate water as polluta

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I think its safe to say that a pollutant is anything that greatly disturbs the life and structure of an ecosystem, and oil spill is an obvious example. H2O and CO2 could be pollutants depending on what affect they have on the enviroment, but if its natural like storm water I don't see the need to regulate it as a normal course of action.
    Hold on there skippy. What the gov't does and does not do has no bearing on the natural or unnatural "cause" of anything. Natrual systems (as well as man-made systems) are disrupted by everything, including other natural elements within them; the spotted owl decline was accompanied by a barred owl increase in the same natural habitat yet was used, by econuts, as a primary "excuse" to limit logging in tha pacific northwest. Storm damage was caused by a natural event, named Sandy, yet used as an "excuse" to transfer money from the entire nation to the area affected by it (natural or not). Gov't control is more about excuses, than reasons, and in this case they got called on it by a judge, even though "by law" the EPA was right.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Federal judge rules EPA overstepped authority trying to regulate water as polluta

    I love threads like this from Cons. Because it shows a fundamental lack of understanding of environmental laws. The ruling was dealing with hazardous materials in storm water which is EPA's pervue. However EPA almost never gets involved in this matter since the Clean Water Act is the the presiding statute in this matter and it is managed by the states under the concept of primacy. So the ruling has litttle or no value and even less meaning. A judge is showboating for his next election. Nothing more.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

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    Re: Federal judge rules EPA overstepped authority trying to regulate water as polluta

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Hold on there skippy. What the gov't does and does not do has no bearing on the natural or unnatural "cause" of anything. Natrual systems (as well as man-made systems) are disrupted by everything, including other natural elements within them; the spotted owl decline was accompanied by a barred owl increase in the same natural habitat yet was used, by econuts, as a primary "excuse" to limit logging in tha pacific northwest. Storm damage was caused by a natural event, named Sandy, yet used as an "excuse" to transfer money from the entire nation to the area affected by it (natural or not). Gov't control is more about excuses, than reasons, and in this case they got called on it by a judge, even though "by law" the EPA was right.
    I think we've left the scope of the OP. We were talking about storm water run off into a creek, not a monster hurricane. The two are different so don't take what I said when we were talking about creeks to something else. But you are correct in that its more than just whether something is natural or not that determines if intervention is needed.

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    Re: Federal judge rules EPA overstepped authority trying to regulate water as polluta

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I agree with the ruling, but these dramatics about Obama are just silly. This isn't a "power grab" its about two different opinions on what a pollutant is and is not, I can understand the argument for stormwater being considered a pollutent because it can alter and change an enviroment if there's simply way too much of it. But its a natural change not like if you dumped a galleon of gasoline into a creek.

    But again, this isn't a "power grab" no one is power hungry to control stormwater.
    What? Obama and his cronies are trying to regulate anything and everything and he's using the EPA and Obamacare to do it.

    Don't you understand that if you can regulate something you can control it? and that is exactly what Obama wants - control over everything, because if he has control everything he can control you!

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    Re: Federal judge rules EPA overstepped authority trying to regulate water as polluta

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    What? Obama and his cronies are trying to regulate anything and everything and he's using the EPA and Obamacare to do it.

    Don't you understand that if you can regulate something you can control it? and that is exactly what Obama wants - control over everything, because if he has control everything he can control you!
    We're talking about storm water here, I don't think Obama is really interested in having that "power" for the sake of having it. And I don't think he really wants control over everything too, I mean his actions don't really support that conculsion. After all he ended DADT so he certainly doesn't want control over that, and he's at least stated he wants to end the Defense of Marriage Act, that's something else he doesn't want to control.

    Are you really John Galt or are you just making that up?

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    Re: Federal judge rules EPA overstepped authority trying to regulate water as polluta

    Father Serra's Legacy - novels about the history of the California missions

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    Re: Federal judge rules EPA overstepped authority trying to regulate water as polluta

    The EPA has gone crazy since Lisa Jackson took over. In the last 5 years they have attacked two large areas of recycling and almost succeeded to destroying both eliminating hundreds of businesses and thousands of jobs.

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    Re: Federal judge rules EPA overstepped authority trying to regulate water as polluta

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    According to that theory air is a pollutant on a windy day and a hurricane or a tornado would have to be declared illegal and somebody would be fined or imprisoned. God maybe?
    Ohhhh, Ohhhh, I know this one!!!

    Al Gore!

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    Re: Federal judge rules EPA overstepped authority trying to regulate water as polluta

    Stormwater runoff is rain that falls on streets, parking areas, sports fields, gravel lots, rooftops or other developed land and flows directly into nearby lakes, rivers and Puget Sound. The drizzling or pounding rain picks up and mixes with what's on the ground:

    Oil, grease, metals and coolants from vehicles;
    Fertilizers, pesticides and other chemicals from gardens and homes;
    Bacteria from pet wastes and failing septic systems;
    Soil from construction sites and other bare ground;
    Soaps from car or equipment washing; and
    Accidental spills, leaky storage containers, tobacco spit and whatever else ends up on the ground.

    The polluted runoff then rushes into nearby gutters and storm drains and into Puget Sound's streams, lakes, rivers and bays. In most areas, stormwater runoff enters these waters without being cleaned of pollutants.

    Why is stormwater a problem?

    Across the U.S., unmanaged stormwater runoff has caused serious damage to streams, lakes and estuaries, particularly where land uses change from rural to urban activities. ....

    The Washington Department of Ecology estimates that one-third of all the polluted waters in the state are polluted by stormwater runoff. Stormwater pollution has contributed to closing thousands of acres of productive shellfish growing beaches. Stormwater runoff can also close swimming beaches and contaminate drinking water supplies.

    Poorly managed stormwater causes three big problems:

    Pollution from stormwater contaminates our waters, closes local businesses, and harms or kills fish and other wildlife. As stormwater passes over developed land, it picks up pollutants and transports them to the nearest storm drain and eventually Puget Sound's rivers and bays.

    Flooding harms streams and wetlands and destroys habitat needed for fish and other wildlife. Unable to soak into the ground, stormwater quickly flows or floods downstream from developed land during the rainy season. As a result, floods can damage homes and businesses, flood septic system drain fields and overwhelm streams, wetlands and wildlife habitat.

    Water shortages in growing communities may occur, especially in developed areas with impervious surfaces or areas where water cannot filtrate through, such as roads, parking lots and rooftops. The impervious surfaces keep rainfall from soaking into the ground and replenishing groundwater and streams used for drinking water or fish habitat.
    Stormwater runoff pollution and how to reduce it

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