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Can Trillion Dollar Coins Save the Economy?

Fenton said:
All that and you didn't even touch on the primary reasons Canada's debt is shrinking and they're able to fund their social welfare systems.

Small relative population and they sell A LOT of oil.
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1) Canada’s government debt is not shrinking. In truth, Canada’s [Conservative party run] Federal debt is actually increasing even vs GDP, still recovering from the recession hit (well maybe recovering somewhat from the Conservative party now gaining more control via a majority government, we shall see). It is overall the overall government debts that are dropping vs GDP.
2) Canada turned the corner on Debt vs GDP when crude was below $30/barrel. Sure oil and gas exports are an important part of the economy but the US has an economy, too, right? It isn’t exactly a rinky-dink mudhole of Elbonia.
3) Canada has chosen this, the US likewise does have the choice. The same choice was even made to do so, up until roughly the turn of the century. Then the paths diverged. It will take some time to turn it around, even after the actual choices are made. One small step was made in the early morning of Jan 1, lots and lots of more little steps are ahead of us.
Class hierarchy is just another liberal construct used to divert and divide.
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:roll:

A “liberal construct” in the sense of ‘riting and reading folk using language to denote actual divisions that have already been made.
The current "hierarchy" is far better than to two class system Obama and the progressives support.
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Which class system would that be?
 
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Be Ready To Mint That Coin - NYTimes.com

"Enter the platinum coin. There’s a legal loophole allowing the Treasury to mint platinum coins in any denomination the secretary chooses. Yes, it was intended to allow commemorative collector’s items — but that’s not what the letter of the law says. And by minting a $1 trillion coin, then depositing it at the Fed, the Treasury could acquire enough cash to sidestep the debt ceiling — while doing no economic harm at all."

Just a little excerpt from Paul Krugman's article. The debt ceiling debacle. Funny money, perhaps? If the FED likes those 0 % interest US Treasuries, it would surely love a real intrinsic commodity, or not? Is that a dead mullet or herring?
 
DaveFagan said:
Be Ready To Mint That Coin - NYTimes.com

"Enter the platinum coin. There’s a legal loophole allowing the Treasury to mint platinum coins in any denomination the secretary chooses. Yes, it was intended to allow commemorative collector’s items — but that’s not what the letter of the law says. And by minting a $1 trillion coin, then depositing it at the Fed, the Treasury could acquire enough cash to sidestep the debt ceiling — while doing no economic harm at all."

Just a little excerpt from Paul Krugman's article. The debt ceiling debacle. Funny money, perhaps? If the FED likes those 0 % interest US Treasuries, it would surely love a real intrinsic commodity, or not? Is that a dead mullet or herring?
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Krugman is out of his gourd.
 
Samhain said:
Krugman is out of his gourd.
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He's the crazy cat lady stuck in a pudgy bearded mans body.

Did you hear he turned down the Treasury Secretary's job and explained how his position as a OP-Ed writer at " the Worlds Paper" was job enough for the twisted little pudgy bastid.

Yep. Only problem, the position was never offered to him.

And liberals idolize that fool.
 
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I’m just a bit confused here, according to the liberals the economy is doing so much better, why with all those jobs claimed to be created, Obama elected for another term, what do we have to worry about ??? Every one is so much better off, and according to more then a few liberals in here, with the interest rate so low … we “NEED” to be borrowing a lot more money.

So what is the need to do anything, why with all these improvements taking place under this administration , all we need to do is continue down the path we are on, and in 4 more years why every things is going to to be peaches and cream right ??
 
Dwight said:
1) Canada’s government debt is not shrinking. In truth,
Canada’s [Conservative party run] Federal debt is actually increasing even vs GDP, still recovering from the recession hit (well maybe recovering somewhat from the Conservative party now gaining more control via a majority government, we shall see). It is overall the overall government debts that are dropping vs GDP.
2) Canada turned the corner on Debt vs GDP when crude was below $30/barrel. Sure oil and gas exports are an important part of the economy but the US has an economy, too, right? It isn’t exactly a rinky-dink mudhole of Elbonia.
3) Canada has chosen this, the US likewise does have the choice. The same choice was even made to do so, up until roughly the turn of the century. Then the paths diverged. It will take some time to turn it around, even after the actual choices are made. One small step was made in the early morning of Jan 1, lots and lots of more little steps are ahead of us.

:roll:

A “liberal construct” in the sense of ‘riting and reading folk using language to denote actual divisions that have already been made.

Which class system would that be?
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You think its possible to legislate away human nature ? Or that it's wise to give any Government entity the power to be the arbiter of fairness or to have the power to deconstruct naturally occurring social pecking orders among human beings ?

Because money or no money the hierarchy will remain as the truth hopefully will become apparent to you that NO we're are not all born equal nor do we mature equally.

Confiscate all the wealth,( just an example Kochise ) and distribute it evenly and in 5 years the poor will emerge as the poor prior and the rich will bevome well,rich again.

You want to tear down the existing hierarchy based on the precepts of monetary and social fairness ?

And maintain it how ? Through the end of a loaded gun because thats what it would take thereby creating two classes.

The Controlled and the Controllers or the Have and the Have nots.

In the interest of just pure fiscal diversity and freedom I tend to think our current system minus the ass-clown Obama and his ilk is just fine.
 
Fenton said:
You think its possible to legislate away human nature ? Or that it’s wise to give any Government entity the power to be the arbiter of fairness or to have the power to deconstruct naturally occurring social pecking orders among human beings ?
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I think it would be a good thing if this country headed back to being the “land of opportunity” rather than the direction of the “land of opportunity if you happened to spring from the right set of genitals [or were adopted by same]” it has been heading for some time. On the balance that would be a very good thing for the longterm prospects of this country and its citizens.

I do not expect 100%. But not being able to reach perfection is a very, very poor excuse for inaction.
 
Fenton said:
You want to tear down the existing hierarchy based on the precepts of monetary and social fairness ?

And maintain it how ? Through the end of a loaded gun because thats what it would take thereby creating two classes.

The Controlled and the Controllers or the Have and the Have nots.
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1) Gibberish, cartoonish imaginings on your part.
2) We already have that here to far more an extent than you realize. The “monetary and social fairness” structures of this country entrench a class system to a greater extent that most of the other Western, industrialized nations. Albeit on a somewhat sliding scale and not as structured and labeled, as say India.
3) Ergo what I am talking about actually heads in the opposite direction of that.
 
Dwight said:
1) Canada’s government debt is not shrinking. In truth, Canada’s [Conservative party run] Federal debt is actually increasing even vs GDP, still recovering from the recession hit (well maybe recovering somewhat from the Conservative party now gaining more control via a majority government, we shall see). It is overall the overall government debts that are dropping vs GDP.
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Actually, if you were to look at the data I provided, it is shrinking.
 
Fenton said:
He's the crazy cat lady stuck in a pudgy bearded mans body.

Did you hear he turned down the Treasury Secretary's job and explained how his position as a OP-Ed writer at " the Worlds Paper" was job enough for the twisted little pudgy bastid.

Yep. Only problem, the position was never offered to him.

And liberals idolize that fool.
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It's time to just speak the truth instead of dancing around the subject.

Liberals are not that bright. We all know it but Conservatives tend to be too polite to speak the obvious.

They should be publicly ridiculed more frequently.
 
Dwight said:
I think it would be a good thing if this country headed back to being the “land of opportunity” rather than the direction of the “land of opportunity if you happened to spring from the right set of genitals [or were adopted by same]”
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Good idea. When will the liberals stop voting for the Kennedys and the Cuomos?
 
Dwight said:
Only if I, like you, badly misread it. :D Because the link you gave (( List of countries by public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )) does not even show debt versus time. :lamo
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So what? Aren't we looking at current debt?

Here are the Canadian Federal debt numbers by themselves (as opposed to the total of all levels of government debt I provided earlier).

Canadian public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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And here is the American version. Check out the debt versus GDP differences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

Still have no idea why companies are fleeing the US?
 
Grant said:
So what? Aren’t we looking at current debt?
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You said shrinking. That is a statement about change over time, which you were asserting based on data that only gave one point in time. You have been shown wrong, in a couple of ways. :D
And here is the American version. Check out the debt versus GDP differences.

United States public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Still have no idea why companies are fleeing the US?
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Just to be clear, comparing between those two is an apples and oranges comparison. Distribution of public debt is different in Canada. Provinces can and do run deficit budgets, in ways that States generally do not. That is why a good deal of the 2009 stimulus was passed on to States, to help backfill their budget shortfalls.

That is why I used the other far more equatable numbers, rather than just the CDN Fed numbers, in prior posts.
 
Dwight said:
Just to be clear, comparing between those two is an apples and oranges comparison..
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So much for your "pop quiz" then.

Quote Originally Posted by Dwight
Pop quiz, how do does Canada and the US compare on ratio of yearly government expenditures (total of all levels of government) as a percentage of GDP:
1) USA’s expenditure ratio is notably higher
2) roughly the same
3) Canada’s expenditure ratio is notably higher
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Grant said:
Actually, if you were to look at the data I provided, it is shrinking.
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Our debt isn't shrinking, but we are on track to having a balanced budget within the next couple years. Something the US could only dream of.
 
fredmertzz said:
Can Trillion Dollar Coins Save the Economy? - Yahoo! News

I just don't understand the argument for this solution. In my mind, this is an equivalent of defaulting on our debt.

But when I think of differently, from the 'inflation' standpoint instead, it seems this is exactly what all of us "Flat-Tax" promoters have been asking for...

If $1T were created to pay down the debt, which equally devalued every dollar in the economy equally, say by 5%, we would all have a buying-power income decrease of 5%. Whether you make $1M/yr or $20k/yr, your pay is decreased 5%...

For once, I won't argue w/ the Keynesians - you go ahead and do what you think is best. You'll be your own undoing.
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The whole of point the "coin" is to show how stupid a default on our debt would be. It would be melted down as soon as Congress decided they wanted to pay our bills again.
The "debt ceiling" is a manufactured "crisis" being used as an excuse to play Russian roulette with all our jobs. Do you think a trillion dollar coin is any more stupid?
 
Grant said:
So much for your "pop quiz" then.
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Not if you read it. It says “total of all levels of government”, not to mention it does not say anything about debt.

Oh man, it must be wholly embarrassing to be you right now. :3oops:
 
iguanaman said:
The whole of point the "coin" is to show how stupid a default on our debt would be. It would be melted down as soon as Congress decided they wanted to pay our bills again.
The "debt ceiling" is a manufactured excuse to play Russian roulette with all our jobs. Do you think a trillion dollar coin is any more stupid?
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Arbitraily adding $1 trillion of make believe money to the Treasury is certainly more stupid than raising the debt ceiling. Default cannot and will not ever be an option. Bitting the bullet and raising the debt ceiling while balancing the budget takes place is the only way to go.
 
Juiposa said:
Arbitraily adding $1 trillion of make believe money to the Treasury is certainly more stupid than raising the debt ceiling. Default cannot and will not ever be an option. Bitting the bullet and raising the debt ceiling while balancing the budget takes place is the only way to go.
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So you would be happy with a law that ends the need for a "debt ceiling increase" by Congress in exchange for banning the trillion $ coin?
What does balancing the budget have to do with paying our bills?
 
Juiposa said:
Arbitraily adding $1 trillion of make believe money to the Treasury is certainly more stupid than raising the debt ceiling.
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One is, economically and financially, the other. Currency is a form of debt.

Because the coin would not go into public circulation, the public currency supply would increase at the same rate as if done via raising the debt ceiling and periodically issuing T-bills&bonds over the next however many months/years.
 
Dwight said:
Not if you read it. It says “total of all levels of government”, not to mention it does not say anything about debt.

Oh man, it must be wholly embarrassing to be you right now. :3oops:
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, comparing between those two is an apples and oranges comparison. Distribution of public debt is different in Canada. Provinces can and do run deficit budgets, in ways that States generally do not. That is why a good deal of the 2009 stimulus was passed on to States, to help backfill their budget shortfalls.
Click to expand...

Apples, oranges and now bananas.
 
iguanaman said:
The whole of point the "coin" is to show
how stupid a default on our debt
would be. It would be melted down as soon as Congress decided they wanted to pay our bills again.
The "debt ceiling" is a manufactured "crisis" being used as an excuse to play Russian roulette with all our jobs. Do you think a trillion dollar coin is any more stupid?
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Lol... You guys loaded that revolver with 5 bullets instead of one, spun the cylinder and pulled the trigger TWICE.

You know, because even the fundamental rules of Russian Roullete allude you.

And the result doesn't seem to have made you guys any less informed.

I guess zero is always zero.

You're trying to justify a endless debt with low yield bonds because you dont have the objectivity to realize your mesiah put us here.

No revenues, higher taxes, no growth and a shrinking economy and your solution ?

Unbelievable.

This is your failure because I didn't vote for this leftist idiot.

The debt debate is proof positive your guy, your ideology and everything it represents has failed miserably.
 
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