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Thread: Can Trillion Dollar Coins Save the Economy?

  1. #51
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    Re: Can Trillion Dollar Coins Save the Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I keep hearing today how raising the debt ceiling is ensuring that we continue to pay for what has already been spent. That is insane. Is there ANYONE in here that would take one of their credit cards and use it to pay for what they have racked up on the others? And would they do that if the agreement was that their children had to pay for what they did when it blew up?
    Loan/debt consolidation is a real thing. That grown up people use. To good effect.

    Your asinine description/analogy notwithstanding.

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    Re: Can Trillion Dollar Coins Save the Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Money doesn't even have to be printed. Just move the decimal places in government computers. I wouldn't, but that is all you really have to do. Devaluing the dollar makes a lot of economic sense, but then there is what happens in reality when you do......
    This is exactly what China is doing in their own war against US currency. They keep the Yuan artificially deflated, which make it easy for them to dump crap products on the US.
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    Re: Can Trillion Dollar Coins Save the Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    This is exactly what China is doing in their own war against US currency. They keep the Yuan artificially deflated, which make it easy for them to dump crap products on the US.
    I think US policy toward China is a testament to bi-partisan political cowardice. That said, if I were in charge of China, I am not sure I wouldn't be doing exactly what they are doing to build my industrial base. They are actually kind of masterful in what they are and will be accomplishing at the expense of Japan and western economies.

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    Re: Can Trillion Dollar Coins Save the Economy?

    Every time I buy something from you the price keeps going up. I'm shopping at Walmart where I can get Chinese gum for less than $100.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yes, however you have to buy at least a pack of gum, the cost will be $999,999,999.59 so your change will be 41 cents.

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    Re: Can Trillion Dollar Coins Save the Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    I think US policy toward China is a testament to bi-partisan political cowardice. That said, if I were in charge of China, I am not sure I wouldn't be doing exactly what they are doing to build my industrial base. They are actually kind of masterful in what they are and will be accomplishing at the expense of Japan and western economies.
    China is just doing to the World what the USA did for 70 years. Using our playbook, so to speak. What country held its' currency down for 70 years? What country manipulated all foreign currencies for 70 years? What country lost control of those factors in the last 12 years? What country stockpiled commodities to control prices? Same answer 4 times. USA.

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    Re: Can Trillion Dollar Coins Save the Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
    Loan/debt consolidation is a real thing. That grown up people use. To good effect.

    Your asinine description/analogy notwithstanding.

    Ok tell me how it is different....I heard it three times today on three different Sunday shows...."We have to raise the debt ceiling to pay for what has already been spent...." IOW Borrow more money to pay for the money we borrowed already....Come on genius...lay it out for me...
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    Re: Can Trillion Dollar Coins Save the Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    China is just doing to the World what the USA did for 70 years. Using our playbook, so to speak. What country held its' currency down for 70 years? What country manipulated all foreign currencies for 70 years? What country lost control of those factors in the last 12 years? What country stockpiled commodities to control prices? Same answer 4 times. USA.
    Actually the US has historically over the past decades pursued policy to somewhat inflate US currency value via a debt selling cycle that then encouraged foreign countries to support the US currency value. This has somewhat hollowed out the US manufacturing sector, among other things but increases the population’s (and the government’s) buying power. To some extent this continues with the Chinese, since they are in a poor position to devalue the US denominated T-bonds they hold, but the Chinese have pursued a zag to the US’ s strategy in an effort to build their industrial base. How this will all play out with the Chinese remains to be seen, anyone that claims it is clear that China (or the US for that matter) is in the driver’s seat does not really grasp the situation.

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    Re: Can Trillion Dollar Coins Save the Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ok tell me how it is different....I heard it three times today on three different Sunday shows...."We have to raise the debt ceiling to pay for what has already been spent...." IOW Borrow more money to pay for the money we borrowed already....Come on genius...lay it out for me...
    For starters, your use of imagery of using credit cards runs entirely counter to the interest rates on new Federal debt currently running roughly an order of magnitude lower than rates typically associated with CCs.

    Next, it is not so much an issue of something being on a CC to start with. A closer analogy is that you had asked Duke Power (or whatever local electric utility) to provide your home/business with electricity with the agreement that you would pay for that power. The end of the month has come and they want to get paid.

    Of course the use of CC imagery on both sides of this isn’t accidental, right? Dollars to donuts it is intentional mischaracterization that you have lapped up.

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    Re: Can Trillion Dollar Coins Save the Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
    For starters, your use of imagery of using credit cards runs entirely counter to the interest rates on new Federal debt currently running roughly an order of magnitude lower than rates typically associated with CCs.

    Next, it is not so much an issue of something being on a CC to start with. A closer analogy is that you had asked Duke Power (or whatever local electric utility) to provide your home/business with electricity with the agreement that you would pay for that power. The end of the month has come and they want to get paid.

    Of course the use of CC imagery on both sides of this isn’t accidental, right? Dollars to donuts it is intentional mischaracterization that you have lapped up.

    Nonsense...We aren't talking about a $500. CC bill either. But the principle is the same...This President who campaigned in his first run on cutting the deficit in half, and called Bush "unpatriotic" for a $5 Trillion debt in 8 years, has surpassed that by a Trillion dollars in 4. Plus his deficit spending projected is for another $5 trillion in the next 4 making our debt a whopping $21 Trillion dollars. The interest, or maintenance payment on that debt alone in 2016 will be $1 Trillion dollars....

    Don't give me the crap about Duke energy, because if I run up a bill with them and keep paying the bill using my credit to do it, at some point I will run out of credit, and default on the bill in which case Duke will cut the power...

    And although the comparison is Macro vs Micro the principles are the same. We now borrow something like 46 cents of every dollar this administration spends, and instead of cuts that everyone agrees we need to do, he bullies a tax increase that has 41 dollars to 1 dollar spending increase....Give us all a break!
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    Re: Can Trillion Dollar Coins Save the Economy?

    Its a pathetic liberal argument and a attempt by them of making the debt a
    nonissue after their demi-god Obama screwed the pooch economically.

    Since criticizing Obama's disasterous economic policies and instituting austerity is out of the question they first ( Blame Bush ) and then come up with some nonsensical approach to basically reset the debt but in a way where that money wont make it out into the economy.

    They fail to recognize that our debt is currently issued by way of short term bonds and any increase in bond yields of just a few points could add a trillion to Obams's current massive defecit spending.

    It could bankrupt us in an instant and a trillion dollar coin wouldn't change a thing.

    We are heading towards a deflationary period that will be far more destructive than the inflation people keep forecasting.

    There is already a massive amount of currency out there, its part of Obama's incompetence as his Fed Appointee loads up the banks with massive reserves and then pays them interest on those reserves.

    Not one Lib here has offered up any sincere opinion that deals with our current situation.

    Stack all the useless paper up you want but with out demand it's just going to sit there and earn massive amounts of interest for banks who are holding record reserves.

    And NO our lack of demand or growing pool of unemployed workers isn't due to newly invented super robots that have the manufacturing capacity of 10 men ( like automation is a new concept) or "eeebil corporations " looking to work their employees to death and earn more or "the great Bush Recession" that was actually caused by a Democrat mandated Housing Bubble.

    If a President STUPIDILY targets the private sector, the investors and the corporations with higher taxes and regulations its going to put the economy in a perpetual holding pattern.

    If a President STUPIDLY forces upon a weak economy a over reaching health care law that increases the cost of premiums and forces Bussinesses to put off investments because of unkown cost its going to stifle the engine that drives our economy.

    And the only ones who suffer are the middle class.

    And some of you clowns voted for him.....twice.

    A trillion dollar coin ? Put Obamas face on both sides. It will be a historical stamped synopsis of his failure of a legacy.
    Last edited by Fenton; 01-06-13 at 07:13 PM.

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