Page 3 of 21 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 208

Thread: Renditions continue under Obama, despite due-process concerns

  1. #21
    King Conspiratard
    Dr. Chuckles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-14 @ 03:04 PM
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    12,895

    Re: Renditions continue under Obama, despite due-process concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm not, convinced that progressives, let alone liberals support it. There is just not so much wrong coming at them. Rendition was not the only issue Bush presented us with.
    "Even the party base appears willing to forgive that failure.

    The poll shows that 53 percent of self-identified liberal Democrats — and 67 percent of moderate or conservative Democrats — support keeping Guantanamo Bay open, even though it emerged as a symbol of the post-Sept. 11 national security policies of President George W. Bush, which many liberals bitterly opposed."

    Poll finds broad support for Obama’s counterterrorism policies - The Washington Post


    "The number of those who approve of the drone strikes drops nearly 20 percent when respondents are told that the targets are American citizens. But that 65 percent is still a very big number, given that these policies really should be controversial.

    And get this: Depressingly, Democrats approve of the drone strikes on American citizens by 58-33, and even liberals approve of them, 55-35. Those numbers were provided to me by the Post polling team."

    Liberals, Dems approve of drone strikes on American citizens abroad - The Plum Line - The Washington Post

    given those numbers, I would be really amazed that circumstances were different only when concerned with rendition

  2. #22
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Renditions continue under Obama, despite due-process concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    "Even the party base appears willing to forgive that failure.

    The poll shows that 53 percent of self-identified liberal Democrats — and 67 percent of moderate or conservative Democrats — support keeping Guantanamo Bay open, even though it emerged as a symbol of the post-Sept. 11 national security policies of President George W. Bush, which many liberals bitterly opposed."

    Poll finds broad support for Obama’s counterterrorism policies - The Washington Post


    "The number of those who approve of the drone strikes drops nearly 20 percent when respondents are told that the targets are American citizens. But that 65 percent is still a very big number, given that these policies really should be controversial.

    And get this: Depressingly, Democrats approve of the drone strikes on American citizens by 58-33, and even liberals approve of them, 55-35. Those numbers were provided to me by the Post polling team."

    Liberals, Dems approve of drone strikes on American citizens abroad - The Plum Line - The Washington Post

    given those numbers, I would be really amazed that circumstances were different only when concerned with rendition
    I find the drone strikes most disturbing, though I've never heard a liberal argue for them. The article concerning closing gitmo as democrats being forgiving. I think that is right. Most understand the fear mongering that accompanied his effort to close the rishon.

    However, I see nothing about rendition. Do you?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #23
    Outer space potato man

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    51,803

    Re: Renditions continue under Obama, despite due-process concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I find the drone strikes most disturbing, though I've never heard a liberal argue for them. The article concerning closing gitmo as democrats being forgiving. I think that is right. Most understand the fear mongering that accompanied his effort to close the rishon.

    However, I see nothing about rendition. Do you?
    I'm a bit on the fence when it comes to drones.

    On the one hand, I think once the decision has been made by the United States to kill some particular person, I'm not convinced the delivery system is all that important. Would an F-16 dropping a bomb be more acceptable than a drone dropping a bomb? What is the practical difference? Perhaps the more important part is how that decision was made, who was being killed, and why. I was not at all pleased with the decision to assassinate an American citizen without judicial oversight. Even a person overseas actively working against the United States. I figure that's a slippery slope. Hey, this American citizen in Oklahoma is totally a terrorist working against the US. Let's drop a bomb on his house. Court order? This man is an enemy of the state! It's a military action in a time of war! Disturbing thought.

    However, I do have some qualms about increased used of drones in warfare. I think it dehumanizes the process. Let's say some day we can replace ground combat troops with robots too. Now we have a scenario where we can fight with zero casualties for us. So what's the big deal about going to war? Let's invade everybody! All the while forgetting that there is a serious and terrible human cost to warfare. As awful as it sounds to say, casualties on our side serve a very necessary purpose of reminding us that war is an absolutely horrific process that we should be avoiding at all cost.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  4. #24
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Renditions continue under Obama, despite due-process concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I'm a bit on the fence when it comes to drones.

    On the one hand, I think once the decision has been made by the United States to kill some particular person, I'm not convinced the delivery system is all that important. Would an F-16 dropping a bomb be more acceptable than a drone dropping a bomb? What is the practical difference? Perhaps the more important part is how that decision was made, who was being killed, and why. I was not at all pleased with the decision to assassinate an American citizen without judicial oversight. Even a person overseas actively working against the United States. I figure that's a slippery slope. Hey, this American citizen in Oklahoma is totally a terrorist working against the US. Let's drop a bomb on his house. Court order? This man is an enemy of the state! It's a military action in a time of war! Disturbing thought.

    However, I do have some qualms about increased used of drones in warfare. I think it dehumanizes the process. Let's say some day we can replace ground combat troops with robots too. Now we have a scenario where we can fight with zero casualties for us. So what's the big deal about going to war? Let's invade everybody! All the while forgetting that there is a serious and terrible human cost to warfare. As awful as it sounds to say, casualties on our side serve a very necessary purpose of reminding us that war is an absolutely horrific process that we should be avoiding at all cost.
    Not only does it dehumanize, but it is too blunt and too often includes civilians needlessly.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #25
    Guru
    Diogenes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Last Seen
    10-11-13 @ 06:52 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,980

    Re: Renditions continue under Obama, despite due-process concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Do you understand that these people are not being treated as prisoners of war?
    Do you understand that these people do no qualify for treatment as prisoners of war? That they have no rights? Have you read the Geneva Conventions?
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
    - Abraham Lincoln

  6. #26
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Renditions continue under Obama, despite due-process concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    Do you understand that these people do no qualify for treatment as prisoners of war? That they have no rights? Have you read the Geneva Conventions?
    Designed for war between countries. So, it's kind of silly to pretend these are soldiers as written in the GC. However, plain criminals don't quite work either. Still, the idea us to follow some rule of law and not to treat anyone as if there were no laws. Laws largely govern our behavior as much as anything else.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #27
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,465

    Re: Renditions continue under Obama, despite due-process concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    So... you conservative lot are now against renditions but under Bush you were for them?

    And for the record... I passionately believe it is a crime what the US is doing and have been doing. Obama and his administration should be ashamed .. but then again they are just using the tools that the Bush administration put in place.
    No...he's pointing out that under Bush, the Libbos were foaming at the mouth about it; now that The Messiah is in charge, they don't give a ****.

    Why aren't the Libbos calling for Obama's imprisonment over this, like they were when Bush was the prez? COuld it be because they didn't really give **** and were creating political dinner theater, just to try and win an election? Libbos lack principles and this is just more evidence of that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  8. #28
    King Conspiratard
    Dr. Chuckles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-14 @ 03:04 PM
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    12,895

    Re: Renditions continue under Obama, despite due-process concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    However, I see nothing about rendition. Do you?
    While it doesn't speak to renditions directly, as I stated in the post you just quoted, the issues and subjects are close enough that I doubt the numbers are very different.

  9. #29
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Renditions continue under Obama, despite due-process concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    No...he's pointing out that under Bush, the Libbos were foaming at the mouth about it; now that The Messiah is in charge, they don't give a ****.

    Why aren't the Libbos calling for Obama's imprisonment over this, like they were when Bush was the prez? COuld it be because they didn't really give **** and were creating political dinner theater, just to try and win an election? Libbos lack principles and this is just more evidence of that.
    I think I answered that earlier.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #30
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Renditions continue under Obama, despite due-process concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    While it doesn't speak to renditions directly, as I stated in the post you just quoted, the issues and subjects are close enough that I doubt the numbers are very different.
    I'm not convinced. Torture and rendition (related topics) are very different than both.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

Page 3 of 21 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •