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Thread: Renditions continue under Obama, despite due-process concerns

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    Re: Renditions continue under Obama, despite due-process concerns

    How many do you know Gardener?

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    Re: Renditions continue under Obama, despite due-process concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    How many do you know Gardener?
    The word I might best use would be "several".


    Which, of course, doesn't mean didn't squat since I am intelligent enough to understand the concept of statistical significance.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Renditions continue under Obama, despite due-process concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    The word I might best use would be "several".


    Which, of course, doesn't mean didn't squat since I am intelligent enough to understand the concept of statistical significance.
    Bravo! That makes 2 of us, eh?

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    Re: Renditions continue under Obama, despite due-process concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Knowing several muslims over the years here in my home town, I do not consider it a fact that muslims are dangerous. You and others certainly are entitled to fear whatever you wish, but I'm not afraid of muslims.
    First off thank you for responding rather than just being snarky. Now, you start off here with a fallacy. "You've known several muslims"? Really? Is that so? Well, you must be an expert on radical Islam then. For the record I don't think that "all muslims are dangerous" either, that is your second fallacy. Thirdly in this opening sentence, I am not "afraid of muslims" either. I am concerned that we don't recognize what we are up against, and who is at war with us.

    Recognizing that the GWOT is a fraud, I understand that we have been manipulated and fooled.
    The GWOT is a fraud, every bit as much as the "war on drugs", or the "war on poverty", or any "war on" anything that is not a tangible force that can be engaged in the practice of actual war. It is a catch phrase, a rallying cry, and a cover for spending.

    It is WE who have invaded the muslim countries.
    Just so I can be clear, please expand, in what way?

    So really, I understand why you think as you do...
    No, I don't think you do.

    but I cannot embrace that fear posture that we are all supposed to embrace, according to the government and media.
    I already told you, I don't have a "fear posture", so you just want to continue the same emotional logical fallacy, it is up to you, but probably best not to pile on the fail.

    Sorry pal.
    "pal"? Do you know me? Do I know you? Hmmmm...I don't think so....Buddy.
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    Re: Renditions continue under Obama, despite due-process concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    First off thank you for responding rather than just being snarky. Now, you start off here with a fallacy. "You've known several muslims"? Really? Is that so? Well, you must be an expert on radical Islam then. For the record I don't think that "all muslims are dangerous" either, that is your second fallacy. Thirdly in this opening sentence, I am not "afraid of muslims" either. I am concerned that we don't recognize what we are up against, and who is at war with us.



    The GWOT is a fraud, every bit as much as the "war on drugs", or the "war on poverty", or any "war on" anything that is not a tangible force that can be engaged in the practice of actual war. It is a catch phrase, a rallying cry, and a cover for spending.



    Just so I can be clear, please expand, in what way?



    No, I don't think you do.



    I already told you, I don't have a "fear posture", so you just want to continue the same emotional logical fallacy, it is up to you, but probably best not to pile on the fail.



    "pal"? Do you know me? Do I know you? Hmmmm...I don't think so....Buddy.
    Figure of speech, buddy. Sorry for the unsolicited cyber intimacy.

    We actually agree on a few issues, mostly the cause of the drug war--funding, but there is more to it than that.

    It is a fallacy that I have known and do still know certain muslims? Wow, that is an interesting form of logic.

    No, I never stated I was an expert on radical islam. Never once. Perhaps you invoked that bit of innuendo to bolster your chosen position here, but I don't know. I'm glad to find out you're not afraid of muslims either. Perhaps I have you confused with another poster, but several posts here and elsewhere about 'radical islam' suggest some sort of fear factor, but maybe I'm misreading that?

    In what way have we invaded muslim countries? It's hard not to be snarky or sarcastic in replying to such a question, but the straight answer is that we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq to save them from themselves, did so under fraud, and did so in violation of international laws forbidding military aggression.

    Curveball, mobile chemical labs, and all those cute pictures Colin put up at the UN. It seemed to me at the time that he was grandstanding and exaggerating, and history has now shown that he was flat-out lying. Ahh, the idealism of a young man dashed to the ground by reality.

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    Re: Renditions continue under Obama, despite due-process concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Knowing several muslims over the years here in my home town, I do not consider it a fact that muslims are dangerous. You and others certainly are entitled to fear whatever you wish, but I'm not afraid of muslims.
    Prior to WWII there were plenty of Germans of a very peaceful nature who had settled in North America. Many of their neighbors said that Germans were a nice people, we can trust them, some of my best friends are Germans, etc.

    But of course the Germans they knew were quite different than the Nazis in Germany.

    You seem to be of the school where either all Muslims are terrorists or no Muslims are terrorists. The fact is that some Muslims are Islamist terrorists and those who are, and they are a significant number it seems, must be stopped. Nobody is out to get your two or three Muslims friends specifically.

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    Re: Renditions continue under Obama, despite due-process concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Prior to WWII there were plenty of Germans of a very peaceful nature who had settled in North America. Many of their neighbors said that Germans were a nice people, we can trust them, some of my best friends are Germans, etc.

    But of course the Germans they knew were quite different than the Nazis in Germany.

    You seem to be of the school where either all Muslims are terrorists or no Muslims are terrorists. The fact is that some Muslims are Islamist terrorists and those who are, and they are a significant number it seems, must be stopped. Nobody is out to get your two or three Muslims friends specifically.
    An older relative of mine who has since passed told me that a German POW got left behind from a work gang when he was a kid and his family happened upon him. The guy apparently had gone up in the woods and taken a nap. They contacted the camp that didn't have anybody extra to come get him, so they fed him and drove him back to the camp. The guy didn't speak english, but seemed very nice and appreciated the meal and the ride. Another relative who fought in WWII said the Germans he encountered off the balltlefield were generally nice enough.

    As for Islam, the estimates are that 15% of Muslims globally tend to the radical side, but not all those are anti-US. Unfortunately 15% of all Muslims is about equal to the entire US population. It is a war we would have long since lost if they were all out to kill us.

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    Re: Renditions continue under Obama, despite due-process concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    So... you conservative lot are now against renditions but under Bush you were for them?

    And for the record... I passionately believe it is a crime what the US is doing and have been doing. Obama and his administration should be ashamed .. but then again they are just using the tools that the Bush administration put in place.
    And for the record, I passionately believe that it is a crime what Muslims with power are doing, and have been doing. Not allowing female children and adults their rights, murdering Gays, ignoring basic human rights for everyone, and the list goes on.

    The Left, as in the case of Communism, will always side with America's enemies and ignore the human rights violations they commit on a daily basis. Only the United States is held to impossibly high standards while America's enemies are not expected to have any standards whatsoever. This is okay with them, and why the US can never really win. The world drifts in one direction only.

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    Re: Renditions continue under Obama, despite due-process concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    An older relative of mine who has since passed told me that a German POW got left behind from a work gang when he was a kid and his family happened upon him. The guy apparently had gone up in the woods and taken a nap. They contacted the camp that didn't have anybody extra to come get him, so they fed him and drove him back to the camp. The guy didn't speak english, but seemed very nice and appreciated the meal and the ride. Another relative who fought in WWII said the Germans he encountered off the balltlefield were generally nice enough.

    As for Islam, the estimates are that 15% of Muslims globally tend to the radical side, but not all those are anti-US. Unfortunately 15% of all Muslims is about equal to the entire US population. It is a war we would have long since lost if they were all out to kill us.
    So your argument is that there were some nice Nazis?

    What does that mean? We should have left them alone?

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    Re: Renditions continue under Obama, despite due-process concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Prior to WWII there were plenty of Germans of a very peaceful nature who had settled in North America. Many of their neighbors said that Germans were a nice people, we can trust them, some of my best friends are Germans, etc.

    But of course the Germans they knew were quite different than the Nazis in Germany.

    You seem to be of the school where either all Muslims are terrorists or no Muslims are terrorists. The fact is that some Muslims are Islamist terrorists and those who are, and they are a significant number it seems, must be stopped. Nobody is out to get your two or three Muslims friends specifically.
    I understand what you're saying. No, I'm 65 and have been aware for years that true bad guys exist.

    Whether christian, muslim, jewish or otherwise, I understand that most are fine, but it is a certainty that certain elements of all religions practice violence, hatred and intolerance.

    No, every individual must be judged separate from the crowd.

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