Dow Jones Industrial Average Jumps 308 Points After Fiscal Cliff Deal

Nothing like the stock market to clarify what people really think about economic policy. The tax increase on the wealthy, along with continued lower taxes on working Americans resulted in a huge 300 point gain today.

Meanwhile conservatism and its debt and anti-tax fetishes seem increasingly irrelevant to US politics.

Get all the good news here:

Dow Jones Industrial Average Jumps 308 Points After Fiscal Cliff Deal

Re: Market Votes For The Tax Hikes on the Rich -- DOW rises over 300

head of joaquin said:

Nothing like the stock market to clarify what people really think about economic policy. The tax increase on the wealthy, along with continued lower taxes on working Americans resulted in a huge 300 point gain today.

Meanwhile conservatism and its debt and anti-tax fetishes seem increasingly irrelevant to US politics.

Get all the good news here:

Dow Jones Industrial Average Jumps 308 Points After Fiscal Cliff Deal

Click to expand...

that's just silly

it was avoidance of the fiscal cliff that caused that

if the agreement had not had those silly tax hikes, the market response would have been as strong or stronger

Re: Market Votes For The Tax Hikes on the Rich -- DOW rises over 300

TurtleDude said:

that's just silly

it was avoidance of the fiscal cliff that caused that

if the agreement had not had those silly tax hikes, the market response would have been as strong or stronger

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Avoidance = tax hike on the rich, no drastic cuts in expenditures.

Exactly what the GOP didn't want.

Sorry, even the markets are voting against you losers and your moribund ideology.

Re: Market Votes For The Tax Hikes on the Rich -- DOW rises over 300

head of joaquin said:

Nothing like the stock market to clarify what people really think about economic policy. The tax increase on the wealthy, along with continued lower taxes on working Americans resulted in a huge 300 point gain today.

Meanwhile conservatism and its debt and anti-tax fetishes seem increasingly irrelevant to US politics.

Get all the good news here:

Dow Jones Industrial Average Jumps 308 Points After Fiscal Cliff Deal

Click to expand...

Or maybe the markets were worried that a deal wouldn't have been reached which could have thrown the US back into recession. (The Fiscal Cliff: Absolutely everything you could possibly need to know, in one FAQ)

Why would Wall Street wants more taxes on the rich when many people on Wall St would be the very ones to pay those taxes?

Re: Market Votes For The Tax Hikes on the Rich -- DOW rises over 300

TurtleDude said:

if the agreement had not had those silly tax hikes, the market response would have been as strong or stronger

Click to expand...

Must have hurt pulling that crystal ball from your ass to get that prediction. Fact is market is doing well despite that right-wingers were hoping for a horrible market just for spite.

i don't like the deal but just like the election, it's proven not to be the doom and gloom some righties hoped for.

Re: Market Votes For The Tax Hikes on the Rich -- DOW rises over 300

head of joaquin said:

Avoidance = tax hike on the rich, no drastic cuts in expenditures.

Exactly what the GOP didn't want.

Sorry, even the markets are voting against you losers and your moribund ideology.

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I cannot help it if you choose to ignore reality

its the deal the market liked because it avoided the fiscal cliff

not the terms of the deal

Re: Market Votes For The Tax Hikes on the Rich -- DOW rises over 300

Mr. Invisible said:

Or maybe the markets were worried that a deal wouldn't have been reached which could have thrown the US back into recession. (The Fiscal Cliff: Absolutely everything you could possibly need to know, in one FAQ)

Why would Wall Street wants more taxes on the rich when many people on Wall St would be the very ones to pay those taxes?

Click to expand...

Even Wall Street realizes that the rich need to pay more and that the tea party's insane plan to cut expenditures would hurt the economy.

How do we know that: THE DOW WENT UP 300 POINTS BECAUSE OF OBAMA'S VICTORY OVER THE GOP ON THE FISCAL CLIFF.

Re: Market Votes For The Tax Hikes on the Rich -- DOW rises over 300

TheNextEra said:

Must have hurt pulling that crystal ball from your ass to get that prediction. Fact is market is doing well despite that right-wingers were hoping for a horrible market just for spite.

i don't like the deal but just like the election, it's proven not to be the doom and gloom some righties hoped for.

Click to expand...

more head in the sand action on your part.

the tax hikes had no real role in why the markets reacted as they did

it was the deal. and most of your post is just plain stupid as well as oozing the class envy your posts tend to contain

Re: Market Votes For The Tax Hikes on the Rich -- DOW rises over 300

head of joaquin said:

Even Wall Street realizes that the rich need to pay more and that the tea party's insane plan to cut expenditures would hurt the economy.

How do we know that: THE DOW WENT UP 300 POINTS BECAUSE OF OBAMA'S VICTORY OVER THE GOP ON THE FISCAL CLIFF.

Click to expand...

more silly nonsense on your part-you don't seem to be able to understand that while the stupid tax hikes might have allowed the deal to HAPPEN its not the tax hikes that caused the market to react the way it did

Re: Market Votes For The Tax Hikes on the Rich -- DOW rises over 300

head of joaquin said:

Even Wall Street realizes that the rich need to pay more and that the tea party's insane plan to cut expenditures would hurt the economy.

How do we know that: THE DOW WENT UP 300 POINTS BECAUSE OF OBAMA'S VICTORY OVER THE GOP ON THE FISCAL CLIFF.

Click to expand...

Wanna answer my question: Why would Wall Street want more taxes on the rich when many people on Wall St would be the very ones to pay those taxes?

Re: Market Votes For The Tax Hikes on the Rich -- DOW rises over 300

I read this earlier and chuckled thinking on a couple of forums this included some were saying the market is going to crash because of the cliff deal...interesting.

Re: Market Votes For The Tax Hikes on the Rich -- DOW rises over 300

Here's an example.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/2012-...ng-like-rock-presential-election-related.html

Conservative stock market advice is about as accurate as Fox News polls.

or this:

Fischer said:

I have been pointing out that would happen in effect if a lot of people had their way to soak it to the rich anyway because the high dollar competition for a fixed number of profitable stocks is what drives up the value for everyday people's 401K's beyond what earnings alone justify. It deflates the stock prices. Taxing them will have the same effect.

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head of joaquin said:

Nothing like the stock market to clarify what people really think about economic policy. The tax increase on the wealthy, along with continued lower taxes on working Americans resulted in a huge 300 point gain today.

Meanwhile conservatism and its debt and anti-tax fetishes seem increasingly irrelevant to US politics.

Get all the good news here:

Dow Jones Industrial Average Jumps 308 Points After Fiscal Cliff Deal

Click to expand...

You might want to consider that individual investors that left the market largely have not returned and these are fund investments looking for Christmas bumps. But when it drops Friday or Monday you can always blame worries about Europe or the GOP refusal to raise the debt ceiling in 2 months.

head of joaquin said:

Nothing like the stock market to clarify what people really think about economic policy. The tax increase on the wealthy, along with continued lower taxes on working Americans resulted in a huge 300 point gain today.

Meanwhile conservatism and its debt and anti-tax fetishes seem increasingly irrelevant to US politics.

Get all the good news here:

Dow Jones Industrial Average Jumps 308 Points After Fiscal Cliff Deal

Click to expand...

Prepare for the sell-off.

It's all insider trading anyways.

Re: Market Votes For The Tax Hikes on the Rich -- DOW rises over 300

head of joaquin said:

Even Wall Street realizes that the rich need to pay more and that the tea party's insane plan to cut expenditures would hurt the economy.

How do we know that: THE DOW WENT UP 300 POINTS BECAUSE OF OBAMA'S VICTORY OVER THE GOP ON THE FISCAL CLIFF.

Click to expand...

Obama victory? Hardly. All everybody did was kick the can down the road for 2 months. The sequester is still pending if the cuts are not made. And what is controlling the stock market right now? Foreign investment. They were nervous before this temporary deal was reached. They are going to be nervous again as March approaches, and the market will once again reflect that nervousness.

OK, so now we have something in the way of revenue. But cuts still need to be addressed. Cuts may have been left on the table, but they are still going to have to be dealt with. If not done properly, we will be back to where we started, and the crap will hit the proverbial fan again. But there is an even bigger problem looming. The US ran out of money on January 1st. By doing some creative accounting, the government can be funded until March. If the debt ceiling is not dealt with by then, the so-called fiscal cliff will be small potatoes, compared to what will happen then.

Re: Market Votes For The Tax Hikes on the Rich -- DOW rises over 300

Mr. Invisible said:

....Why would Wall Street wants more taxes on the rich when many people on Wall St would be the very ones to pay those taxes?

Click to expand...

Ben Stein isn't exactly "Wall Street" but he clearly says something like "I do not want my children/my wonderful granddaughter to be facing a bankrupt America"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I, me, an individual, a committee of one.
Pledge, dedicate all of my worldly goods to give without self pity.
Allegiance, my love and my devotion.
To the Flag, our standard, Old Glory, a symbol of freedom. Wherever she waves, there is respect because your loyalty has given her a dignity that shouts freedom is everybody's job.
United, that means that we have all come together........
Red & The Pledge - YouTube

Re: Market Votes For The Tax Hikes on the Rich -- DOW rises over 300

The stock market DOES have huge spurts generally when something like this occurs. When QE3 began, the stock market rallied for a few days, then fell and stagnated. A few weeks ago I remember a huge plummet because Bernanke stated there would be no more stimulus beyond QE3, despite QE3 still occurring. QE3 had and continues to have no positive effect on the market because of sound fiscal policy, but only because it was assumed to do so at the time, and any benefit to the long term spending has at this point been lost. Of course, stocks would plummet if it stopped. Not because QE3 is actually helping anything, but because of what will be the assumed consequences.

What is the logic behind these tax raises helping the economy? There's no possible benefit to them, they're mainly political because Democrats promised to "get" the rich. However, it adverts larger tax hikes, which creates a level of certainty which people will obviously respond positively to. I find it hard to believe that once that euphoria wears off, that the reality that nothing has really been done besides pointless tax hikes on a small enough group that even all their money couldn't possibly help the debt or cure the deficit, the market will begin to stagnate again.

danarhea said:

Obama victory? Hardly. All everybody did was kick the can down the road for 2 months. The sequester is still pending if the cuts are not made. And what is controlling the stock market right now? Foreign investment. They were nervous before this temporary deal was reached. They are going to be nervous again as March approaches, and the market will once again reflect that nervousness.

OK, so now we have something in the way of revenue. But cuts still need to be addressed. Cuts may have been left on the table, but they are still going to have to be dealt with. If not done properly, we will be back to where we started, and the crap will hit the proverbial fan again. But there is an even bigger problem looming. The US ran out of money on January 1st. By doing some creative accounting, the government can be funded until March. If the debt ceiling is not dealt with by then, the so-called fiscal cliff will be small potatoes, compared to what will happen then.

Click to expand...

What revenue? Enough to pay for 6 months in ten years? Great. Well need a balance of 20:1 cuts to revenue in order to have a comprehensive plan. Obama has offered 2:1 cuts to revenue. There's no way we'll get the cuts we need, the democrats will never in a million years agree to it.

This is all assuming that the projected revenue increase is accurate. It's difficult to say how much benefit a tax raise will have until you've actually seen the result, however. I'll give the democrats the benefit of the doubt and say their revenue increases are accurate.

head of joaquin said:

Nothing like the stock market to clarify what people really think about economic policy. The tax increase on the wealthy, along with continued lower taxes on working Americans resulted in a huge 300 point gain today.

Meanwhile conservatism and its debt and anti-tax fetishes seem increasingly irrelevant to US politics.

Get all the good news here:

Dow Jones Industrial Average Jumps 308 Points After Fiscal Cliff Deal

Click to expand...

So do you finally admit that the entire false narrative that the "Bush Tax Cuts were only for the Rich" was a lie since most of them were made "permanent"?

Obamacare taxes are incoming. 7 new ones that will hit people making less than 250K a year. The payroll "tax cut" was a total scam. That's gone. People making 50K will see their taxes increase. This deal will add 4 trillion to the deficit. It's a joke.

How much are you getting paid to type your propaganda and lies?

Re: Market Votes For The Tax Hikes on the Rich -- DOW rises over 300

Mr. Invisible said:

Wanna answer my question: Why would Wall Street want more taxes on the rich when many people on Wall St would be the very ones to pay those taxes?

Click to expand...

Actually, a pretty large part of the money in wall street is from the middle class. Rich people would have lost a crapload of money had they not been able to sell toxic debt to retirees.

Re: Market Votes For The Tax Hikes on the Rich -- DOW rises over 300

Utility Man said:

Ben Stein isn't exactly "Wall Street" but he clearly says something like "I do not want my children/my wonderful granddaughter to be facing a bankrupt America"

Click to expand...

You know a network sucks when you have to apologize for telling a basic truth.

Re: Market Votes For The Tax Hikes on the Rich -- DOW rises over 300

TurtleDude said:

more head in the sand action on your part.

the tax hikes had no real role in why the markets reacted as they did

it was the deal. and most of your post is just plain stupid as well as oozing the class envy your posts tend to contain

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You wouldn't know class envy if it bit your ass since nothing I posted even came close to class envy. The facts are the market is doing well with Obama being president (I thought the world was going to end according to some right-wingers if Obama was re-elected) and the markets are doing well even with the deal.

You're just mad that the doom and gloom you conservatives "predicted" from your faulty crystal balls isn't coming to fruition.

Re: Market Votes For The Tax Hikes on the Rich -- DOW rises over 300

TheNextEra said:

You wouldn't know class envy if it bit your ass since nothing I posted even came close to class envy. The facts are the market is doing well with Obama being president (I thought the world was going to end according to some right-wingers if Obama was re-elected) and the markets are doing well even with the deal.

You're just mad that the doom and gloom you conservatives "predicted" from your faulty crystal balls isn't coming to fruition.

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now you are making stuff up. I don't believe in group identifications, guilt or benefits so why should I get upset over something you claimed someone else said? Obama sucks, you know that, I know that. and his whining about "the rich" not paying their fair share is sort of a litmus test-if you believe that crap I pretty much right you off as being silly (I am not saying you said that)

Re: Market Votes For The Tax Hikes on the Rich -- DOW rises over 300

TurtleDude said:

now you are making stuff up. I don't believe in group identifications, guilt or benefits so why should I get upset over something you claimed someone else said? Obama sucks, you know that, I know that. and his whining about "the rich" not paying their fair share is sort of a litmus test-if you believe that crap I pretty much right you off as being silly (I am not saying you said that)

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I don't believe that the wealthy aren't paying their fair share, but I do agree they are the most capable of paying an increase in taxes. That's just a fact. We can go into the whole right and wrong thing with that, but the fact is they can.

Where I agree with most of the right on is that REAL spending cuts need to happen out of good faith before raising taxes. The federal government has a huge spending problem and while increased revenue through raised taxes MIGHT decrease a very small portion of the debt, without spending cuts it is like putting a bandaid on a severed hand hoping to stop the bleeding.

Eventually taxes WILL need to be raised, but I think the government needs to prove itself more responsible before doing so.

I lost faith that the GOP could be fiscally responsible during the Bush years and the Dems pretty much sealed the deal at the end of the Bush era and beginning of the Obama era with any hope they could. No side currently speaks for me.

head of joaquin said:

Nothing like the stock market to clarify what people really think about economic policy. The tax increase on the wealthy, along with continued lower taxes on working Americans resulted in a huge 300 point gain today.

Meanwhile conservatism and its debt and anti-tax fetishes seem increasingly irrelevant to US politics.

Get all the good news here:

Dow Jones Industrial Average Jumps 308 Points After Fiscal Cliff Deal

Click to expand...

Anyone with half a brain predicted that. Safe haven investments. When dividend & capitol gains taxes are high put your money into safe haven investments, there is no incentive to invest. Once the movement of money stops, I estimate 6 mos. to a year, we will see the amount of daily trades drop off considerably.

People will then continue to roll over their dividends & gains to avoid the additional taxes taking out the minimal they need/want. Great for the huge mega corps, banks and big business, bad for the economy & small business.

What will suffer is investment in small business', new untested technologies & high risk investments...among others.

In other words stagnation. At a time when we actually need investment in small business, new technology etc...they remove all incentive to do so.

Re: Market Votes For The Tax Hikes on the Rich -- DOW rises over 300

head of joaquin said:

Even Wall Street realizes that the rich need to pay more and that the tea party's insane plan to cut expenditures would hurt the economy.

How do we know that: THE DOW WENT UP 300 POINTS BECAUSE OF OBAMA'S VICTORY OVER THE GOP ON THE FISCAL CLIFF.

Click to expand...

The jump in the DOW is just people moving money around, I wouldnt be getting so excited and calling it a victory for Obama that the DOW jumped Wednesday. There should be a lot of fluctuation in the market over the next week or so, ups and downs....DOW, NASDAQ, S&P, Nikkei 225 etc. will have its ups and downs this week....the DOW is already down 105 pts as of 10 AM today.

Add to that the market - even tho it was open over the holidays it didnt have a lit of the players playing...some of that was making up for downed time.