Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes[W: 110]

Gawain · Jan 3, 2013

Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

Grant said:
And lets also not forget that the end of the war marked the greatest layoff of workers in American history. Yet these same people came back from the war, and those who were laid off from the war factories, went on to build one of the strongest economies ever. What is the difference between then and now?

Demand from the rest of the world. And it seems those workers found jobs mighty fast. Making cars instead of tanks and the like. It took a few years for the factories to retool and then we took off. Also most GIs had put money away and they all got a years unemployment plus the GI bill.

OpportunityCost · Jan 3, 2013

Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

Whipsnade said:
If your talking about stimulus, then he should double down on it.But with the baggers in the house. who bohner is sucking up to, sadly that wont happen.At least it wont happen until the midterms when we kick ass again.

Yeah, Beohner is sucking up to Tea Party people, thats why they were purged off most of the committee assignments just recently.

The stimulus was badly executed, its an inherent political poison pill.

Gawain · Jan 3, 2013

Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

OpportunityCost said:
Yeah, Beohner is sucking up to Tea Party people, thats why they were purged off most of the committee assignments just recently.

The stimulus was badly executed, its an inherent political poison pill.

Maybe he is speaking of the old guard.

Travis007 · Jan 3, 2013

Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

Whipsnade said:
wtf do you care what he does for a living?

because he talks like a fool.. I gotta know.. he must be home collecting my tax dollars in the form of Obamamoney..

I gotta feeling he is no titan of industry..

Travis007 · Jan 3, 2013

Whipsnade said:
Time traveler eh?:mrgreen:

I hardly recognize the USA also..soon nobody will..

libs..

PerfectStorm · Jan 3, 2013

Can anybody tell me if Warren Buffet will now pay more federal taxes than his secretary?

Keridan · Jan 3, 2013

PerfectStorm said:
Can anybody tell me if Warren Buffet will now pay more federal taxes than his secretary?

Sure. He always did.

Donc · Jan 3, 2013

Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

QUOTE OpportunityCost

Its pretty obvious. You somehow cant even acknowledge full blame for the increases in spending, you have to foist them on Bush to claim Obama is not a big spender.

Yep,spending going from $2.98 trillion, to $3.52 trillion, in BO's first year as Pres had nothing to do with dubya, in spite of the fact that it was dubyas signed budget. Was passed by the 2008 Congress ,plus it was in effect four months before BO was sworn in.:roll:

But you want credit to go to Dems for somehow being part of fiscal restraint when they held total legislative control at the time that budget was passed.

Thats refusing to accept reality.

What realty would that be?

Secondly, go back and look at how we pulled out of WW2 spending habits; spending got cut almost in half in 2 years. War time taxes and controls were repealed.

What are your thoughts on Keynesian theory?seeing as that was what I was discussion with Fenton in the post that you quoted.:2wave:

Donc · Jan 3, 2013

Grant said:
It had the ONLY industrial base. Now there is foreign competition and the US economy, in comparison with others, is not doing as well as it did back then.

Yet many Americans feel that it is their birthright to be born into wealth and privilege, again in comparison with other nations, without having to compete as they once did. Nor did they ever have to fight for their freedoms as their grandparents did.

Meanwhile the people in the third world are working harder and smarter to get ahead and are taking over many of the companies and corporations which were once the symbol of Western power and influence, and developing other huge international corporations also.. Whether or not the Western democracies can maintain the freedoms and standards of living they inherited from previous generations remains to be seen. Some of them look to fail.

In other words Keynesian economics works.:2wave:

Donc · Jan 3, 2013

Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

OpportunityCost said:
Yeah, Beohner is sucking up to Tea Party people, thats why they were purged off most of the committee assignments just recently.

The stimulus was badly executed, its an inherent political poison pill.

The stimulus to the auto industry not only saved the car makers but it save automotive parts manufactures .It also saved dealership;states are receiving more taxes because of more American cars are being sold.Yes, the American Auto-making industry is BACK.

eace

Donc · Jan 3, 2013

Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

Travis007 said:
because he talks like a fool.. I gotta know.. he must be home collecting my tax dollars in the form of Obamamoney..

I gotta feeling he is no titan of industry..

Maybe he is an entrepreneur such as myself. I’m a Christmas tree salesman.:2wave:

Grant · Jan 3, 2013

Whipsnade said:
In other words Keynesian economics works.:2wave:

You feel Keynesian economics were involved?

Where?

Grant · Jan 3, 2013

Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

Whipsnade said:
The stimulus to the auto industry not only saved the car makers but it save automotive parts manufactures .It also saved dealership;states are receiving more taxes because of more American cars are being sold.Yes, the American Auto-making industry is BACK.eace

It did not save "the car makers". It took taxpayer money and put it into failed automakers which, undoubtedly, will fail again. It was corrupt cronyism and of course unfair competition to legitimate auto manufacturers.

Automakers have failed dozens of times in the past, were quickly replaced by others, and the public took their failures in stride, just as they do all failed companies.

Donc · Jan 3, 2013

Grant said:
You feel Keynesian economics were involved?

Where?

In post #185 in response to my post where I said “We were the only industrial power that had the capacity to rebuild Europe(Marshall Plan) and japan but the rebuilding was classic Keynesian. “Fentons reply was “What was different about the American economy back then? “

That brings us to post#188 where I replied with.“It had an industrial base. “Which got this reply from Fenton in post #193 “It had a manufacturing Base and was an isolated economy. “Which I ignored because ...WELL, look at it and tell me if it makes any sense to you.:roll:

That brings us up to your post #197, where i answered your three paragraph post with. ”In other words Keynesian economics works.“

your first paragraph “It had the ONLY industrial base. Now there is foreign competition and the US economy, in comparison with others, is not doing as well as it did back then. “The other two paragraphs were your opinions.

That brings up to your post #212 “You feel Keynesian economics were involved?Where? “

So...i will answer your question now. YES, I feel that Keynesian economics were very much a part of our war effort. NO,<preemptive) the war didn't pull us out of the great depression; the Roosevelt implemented Keynesian economic policy is what did. Keynesian economics also was what pulled Europe outta the doldrums,with the Marshall Plan.

eace

Donc · Jan 3, 2013

Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

Grant said:
It did not save "the car makers". It took taxpayer money and put it into failed automakers which, undoubtedly, will fail again. It was corrupt cronyism and of course unfair competition to legitimate auto manufacturers.

Automakers have failed dozens of times in the past, were quickly replaced by others, and the public took their failures in stride, just as they do all failed companies.

This is winger bull**** and not worthy of a reply.

iguanaman · Jan 3, 2013

Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

Grant said:
It did not save "the car makers". It took taxpayer money and put it into failed automakers which, undoubtedly, will fail again. It was corrupt cronyism and of course unfair competition to legitimate auto manufacturers.

Automakers have failed dozens of times in the past, were quickly replaced by others, and the public took their failures in stride, just as they do all failed companies.

We have also rescued automakers before and not regretted it either. I'm sorry if you wanted to buy your next car from Communists but it is not good for America to buy everything from China.
You will just have to suffer.

Grant · Jan 4, 2013

Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

Whipsnade said:
This is winger bull**** and not worthy of a reply.

Your standards are just too high, are they?

You just had a bad case of whupass, that's all.

Grant · Jan 4, 2013

Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

iguanaman said:
We have also rescued automakers before and not regretted it either. I'm sorry if you wanted to buy your next car from Communists but it is not good for America to buy everything from China.
You will just have to suffer.

What about Packard, Reo, Nash, etc. Did it ever lead to a shortage of vehicles for the US consumer?

Isn't the government control of business Communism?

If the Chinese make a good vehicle at a good price I might buy but, traditionally, Communists make crappy automobiles.

Donc · Jan 4, 2013

Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

Grant said:
Your standards are just too high, are they?

You just had a bad case of whupass, that's all.

Speaken of whupass check out post # 214.:2wave:

gingern44 · Jan 4, 2013

Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

iguanaman said:
We have also rescued automakers before and not regretted it either. I'm sorry if you wanted to buy your next car from Communists but it is not good for America to buy everything from China. You will just have to suffer.

The bailout didn't really save GM. If GM had gone bankrupt they would have restructured as in the past. Quite possibly it would have come back a stronger company. Besides the financial help GM received was secondary to getting out from beneath their crippling retirement legacy costs.

On top of that the job loss horrors of a GM restructuring were greatly exaggerated. I have no doubt my company would be included in that supply chain even though as a percentage of my business it's negligible. For some of us this was a combination of too big to fail and payback to the unions. I wish GM well but worry, as with the banks, they will proceed with the assumption they will always be bailed out.

Grant · Jan 4, 2013

Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

Whipsnade said:
Speaken of whupass check out post # 214.:2wave:

He "feels" Keynesian economics were 'a part of it' but doesn't quote Keynes for support. I chose not to comment and just let it go.

You had it handed to you again. Why not just move on?

Grant · Jan 4, 2013

Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

gingern44 said:
gingern44 said:

The bailout didn't really save GM. If GM had gone bankrupt they would have restructured as in the past. Quite possibly it would have come back a stronger company. Besides the financial help GM received was secondary to getting out from beneath their crippling retirement legacy costs.

Click to expand...

Then the bailout should never have been offered or accepted. Ford took the high road.

On top of that the job loss horrors of a GM restructuring were greatly exaggerated. I have no doubt my company would be included in that supply chain even though as a percentage of my business it's negligible. For some of us this was a combination of too big to fail and payback to the unions. I wish GM well but worry, as with the banks, they will proceed with the assumption they will always be bailed out.

Click to expand...

Yes, good point. Once companies feel they can be too big to fail then they will become fatter and more careless. I wish GM well also but still would not buy one of their vehicles. I bought a Ford, and shares in the company as well.

iguanaman · Jan 4, 2013

Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

Grant said:
What about Packard, Reo, Nash, etc. Did it ever lead to a shortage of vehicles for the US consumer?

Isn't the government control of business Communism?

If the Chinese make a good vehicle at a good price I might buy but, traditionally, Communists make crappy automobiles.

Like I said. Sorry no Chinese cars for you.
You wanted the American automobile to disappear just to get the unions. It's pretty childish and petty. But what else do you have?

OpportunityCost · Jan 4, 2013

Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

Whipsnade said:
The stimulus to the auto industry not only saved the car makers but it save automotive parts manufactures .It also saved dealership;states are receiving more taxes because of more American cars are being sold.Yes, the American Auto-making industry is BACK.eace

Thats a nice way of trying to move the goal posts. Im talking of the stimulus in total. It did not accomplish its stated goal. If I wanted to talk about TARP, I would have.

BTW, the bailout agreement closed a hell of a lot of dealerships. But if you just count the entirety of the jobs saved and ignore the jobs that were lost with the agreement you have a successful program. Traditionally, thats called spin.

Grant · Jan 4, 2013

Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

iguanaman said:
Like I said. Sorry no Chinese cars for you.
You wanted the American automobile to disappear just to get the unions. It's pretty childish and petty. But what else do you have?

Where did I say I wanted the American auto to disappear? In fact there are several auto manufacturers in the US and I think that's a very good thing. The problem is when governments giving money to private companies, which inevitably leads to corruption and cronyism.

Because of their slim hold on facts and reality, Leftists must always use quotes to support whatever shaky opinions they might offer. That's a new rule and you should register yourself as a committed leftist as soon as possible.

Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes[W: 110]

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