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Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes[W: 110]

Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

Whipsnade said:
In Obamas 2010 budget,( BO's first)spending was $3.46 trillion. In 2012, spending is set to rise 0.7% to $3.63 trillion. the 2009 budget is the Bush budget, with spending going from $2.98 trillion to $3.52 trillion.

CBO | The Budget and Economic Outlook: Fiscal Years 2012 to 2022
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Once again the revised 2009 budget with an additional 400 billion was not signed by Bush. It was signed by Obama. The additional money from the stimulus in some cases added to the baseline budget numbers. Obama was all for the increases that occurred in the 2009 budget. I really wish liberals would stop trying to pretend they were not responsible for the increases when they wanted what was agreed to and would have went for more if they thought it would have passed. Its a farce.
 
Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

iguanaman said:
This is why I voted for Obama....

0817-biz-EUROweb.jpg
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You can't give Obama, Bush, or even the Man in the Moon credit for that. This is the market itself, rebounding after the correction. Happens in every recession. The market goes bust, then recovers, no matter what politicians do. Yes, 12 million jobs will be created in the next couple of years. Obama will take credit for it, but he doesn't deserve it. Romney didn't lie either, when he promised to create 12 million jobs. He just stretched the truth, as Obama will undoubtedly do. The market will create those jobs, in spite of Washington, not because of it.
 
Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

OpportunityCost said:
Once again the revised 2009 budget with an additional 400 billion was not signed by Bush. It was signed by Obama. The additional money from the stimulus in some cases added to the baseline budget numbers. Obama was all for the increases that occurred in the 2009 budget. I really wish liberals would stop trying to pretend they were not responsible for the increases when they wanted what was agreed to and would have went for more if they thought it would have passed. Its a farce.
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Who was president when this fiscal year began?

<The U.S. federal government's fiscal year begins on October of the previous calendar year and ends on 30 September of the year with which it is numbered>

<The United States federal budget for fiscal year 2009 began as a spending request submitted by President George W. Bush to the 110th Congress. The final resolution was approved by the House on June 5, 2008.]>
 
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Meanwhile Hollywood gets their tax break, meant to encourage filming in the US, extended for another year costing the gov't $430 mil in revenue. I wonder how that happened?
 
Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

Travis007 said:
tell that to the obama loser , who doesnt work nor care to.. the losere class Obama is working to push well greater then 51% of trhe population..

Obama is a plaague.... a total disaster and the idiots in society cant even add...
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If you it only on one side, you're part of the problem.
 
Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

iguanaman said:
It's obvious that the rich have not been paying very much since the 1980's. Their net wealth has quintupled while our debt has tripled. You don't see that as a problem?
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No, of course not. The rich have not been increasing the debt, the government has. If a government can't learn to live within its means then, like any organization, they should be replaced.

But the majority of the American electorate apparently don't mind being trillions of dollars in debt, where the slightest increase in interest rates will quicken the pace of decline and where the only remedy is a sudden stop. People will always have to pay for their ignorance.
 
Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

Whipsnade said:
Who was president when this fiscal year began?

<The U.S. federal government's fiscal year begins on October of the previous calendar year and ends on 30 September of the year with which it is numbered>

<The United States federal budget for fiscal year 2009 began as a spending request submitted by President George W. Bush to the 110th Congress. The final resolution was approved by the House on June 5, 2008.]>
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And the Congress took that request and increased spending by several hundred billion and then submitted it for signature to Obama on his 2nd day in office. Which was my point. Which you could have found out if you werent too busy trying to pass blame than acknowledge reality.

Dems wanted those increases and more, they just didnt want the blame for the spending.
 
Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

OpportunityCost said:
And the Congress took that request and increased spending by several hundred billion and then submitted it for signature to Obama on his 2nd day in office. Which was my point. Which you could have found out if you werent too busy trying to pass blame than acknowledge reality.

Dems wanted those increases and more, they just didnt want the blame for the spending.
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Even though I've already posted you a link to the CATO Institute you just won't give up on this. Bush ramped up the spending every year leading to the 2009 deficit.
Here's yet another Right wing think tank who also agrees the deficits were "baked in the cake" before Obama even took office.
The fact that this comes as some kind of shock to you makes it clear you haven't examined the economic policies of all GOP Presidents since Reagan. They leave HUGE defcits.

Having said that, it is impossible to look at the chart and not to see a large ramp up in outlays under George W. Bush — the president who reversed the direction of federal outlays, which had been falling. Indeed, it is perfectly reasonable to argue that much of the responsibility for 2009’s 25.2 percent rests with President Bush, and not with President Obama; in January 2009, before President Obama took office, the CBO released its forecast that fiscal year 2009 would see outlays of 24.9 percent of GDP based on pre-Obama policies.
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Federal-outlays-as-a-percentage-of-GDP.jpg

Yep, Obama's a Big Spender...Just Like His Predecessors - Forbes
 
Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

danarhea said:
You can't give Obama, Bush, or even the Man in the Moon credit for that. This is the market itself, rebounding after the correction. Happens in every recession. The market goes bust, then recovers, no matter what politicians do. Yes, 12 million jobs will be created in the next couple of years. Obama will take credit for it, but he doesn't deserve it. Romney didn't lie either, when he promised to create 12 million jobs. He just stretched the truth, as Obama will undoubtedly do. The market will create those jobs, in spite of Washington, not because of it.
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Thanks for the pontification but the chart was meant to show the comparative growth rates of the U.S. and our major trading partners in Europe. It shows quite clearly that Obama's policies have done far better than the "austerity" the conservative govts. in Europe pursued. In fact, the deep cuts in spending short circuited their recoveries and put many of them back in recession.
Romney would have had to break a 100 year "curse" of Republican Presidents to make good on his employment pledge. Every single newly elected GOP President has had a recession in his 1st term throughout the ENTIRE 20th and 21th century. I'm glad we didn't decide to take that chance.
 
Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

iguanaman said:
Even though I've already posted you a link to the CATO Institute you just won't give up on this. Bush ramped up the spending every year leading to the 2009 deficit.
Here's yet another Right wing think tank who also agrees the deficits were "baked in the cake" before Obama even took office.
The fact that this comes as some kind of shock to you makes it clear you haven't examined the economic policies of all GOP Presidents since Reagan. They leave HUGE defcits.



Federal-outlays-as-a-percentage-of-GDP.jpg

Yep, Obama's a Big Spender...Just Like His Predecessors - Forbes
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So what you will have to convince me of, is that dems didnt want to increase spending. You will also have to convince me that Obama didnt vote or support the same spending levels he signed when he came into office.

Thats the passive agressive of the liberal argument on budgeting: they want spending increases, but they dont want the responsibility for them. Who had control of the house and senate? Who passed the budget? Who increased the budget Bush submitted by 400 billion? Who signed that budget?

Appeals to authority where you let someone else do your thinking for you arent going to sway me. Quit trying to frame the debate and try answering the questions Im asking. That will give you answers you dont like so your interest in answering them is pretty low.
 
Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

head of joaquin said:
The tea party is essentially against modern America, a modern economy, and modern science. They want to return to economic policies that brought us child labor and 6 day work weeks, with most wealth going to the wealthy, zero pollution control, zero regulation of the industries that dominate the economy and external costs. The deny climate science, evolution, and think scientists are in a conspiracy. Indeed they think everybody but them are conspiracing, which is part of their paranoid maladjusted politics.

So your impression is about as off-base as possible.
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How much are you paid to post this nonsensical propaganda
 
MaggieD said:
New song and lose nihilism/nihilistic. You've grown quite too fond of it.
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When your only tool is a hammer, all problems start to look like nails.
 
Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

danarhea said:
You can't give Obama, Bush, or even the Man in the Moon credit for that. This is the market itself, rebounding after the correction. Happens in every recession. The market goes bust, then recovers, no matter what politicians do. Yes, 12 million jobs will be created in the next couple of years. Obama will take credit for it, but he doesn't deserve it. Romney didn't lie either, when he promised to create 12 million jobs. He just stretched the truth, as Obama will undoubtedly do. The market will create those jobs, in spite of Washington, not because of it.
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It's the problem of thinking government is iN control of these things. I keep saying the get too much blame and too much credit.
 
Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

That is a truth, Boo Radley, however, I think and believe that government does have some influence. I say some because there are caveats. The market is an impersonal dynamical force but it can be influenced by individuals, corporations, and natural events to varying or focused degrees.
 
Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

amph said:
That is a truth, Boo Radley, however, I think and believe that government does have some influence. I say some because there are caveats. The market is an impersonal dynamical force but it can be influenced by individuals, corporations, and natural events to varying or focused degrees.
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I didn't say no influence. I said control. Influence is usually minor in comparison with other factors. So credit and blame are often unduly given.
 
Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

OpportunityCost said:
And the Congress took that request and increased spending by several hundred billion and then submitted it for signature to Obama on his 2nd day in office. Which was my point. Which you could have found out if you werent too busy trying to pass blame than acknowledge reality.

Dems wanted those increases and more, they just didnt want the blame for the spending.
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YOUR THE ONE that responded to my post ,where Fenton and I was discussing KEYNESIAN ECONOMICS with this bul**** .

“Once again the revised 2009 budget with an additional 400 billion was not signed by Bush.”
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Now its your turn.till me how i was “trying to pass blame rather than acknowledge reality? “:lamo
 
Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

head of joaquin said:
The tea party is essentially against modern America, a modern economy, and modern science. They want to return to economic policies that brought us child labor and 6 day work weeks, with most wealth going to the wealthy, zero pollution control, zero regulation of the industries that dominate the economy and external costs. The deny climate science, evolution, and think scientists are in a conspiracy. Indeed they think everybody but them are conspiracing, which is part of their paranoid maladjusted politics.



So your impression is about as off-base as possible.
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You're against America... your posts are garbage,.... you must be Al Gore's stunt double..

dont tell us what the Tea Party is about as you know nothing..youre just a lib shill




=
 
Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

Bronson said:
How much are you paid to post this nonsensical propaganda
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B,
It makes one wonder if this guy gargles Al Gore's bath water..
 
Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

head of joaquin said:
I'd love to see the GOP revive the debt ceiling lunacy and prevent relief for victims of hurricane Sandy. It's totally defines how delusional and nihilistic they have become.

But it won't happen. Even rightwing loons like King and Christie are feed up with the tea party nihilism. The debt ceiling gambit is over.
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what do you do for a living..? I gotta know..
 
Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

Whipsnade said:
WTH are you talking about?:shock:
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His plan basically has two parts.

1. Spend on work programs.
2. Cut spending at full employment to pay off the debt that was created.

The second part has never been done. The first part while done has never been constrained to just what he said.
 
Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

Henrin said:
His plan basically has two parts.

1. Spend on work programs.
2. Cut spending at full employment to pay off the debt that was created.

The second part has never been done. The first part while done has never been constrained to just what he said.
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If your talking about stimulus, then he should double down on it.But with the baggers in the house. who bohner is sucking up to, sadly that wont happen.At least it wont happen until the midterms when we kick ass again.
 
Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

Whipsnade said:
If your talking about stimulus, then he should double down on it.But with the baggers in the house. who bohner is sucking up to, sadly that wont happen.At least it wont happen until the midterms when we kick ass again.
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I'm talking about the basics of Keynesian economics. Keynes didn't just support stimulus without limit but outlined certain things he said it was to be spend on. He also made it a point to say that the debt that came from this needed to be paid off and this should be done at full employment. The thing is that neither half of this has ever been done.
 
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