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Thread: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes[W: 110]

  1. #61
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    Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

    Quote Originally Posted by TaraAnne View Post
    So you will not answer the question. I find it funny that the right calls for this stuff and yet tries to make it out to be Obama taking over America but when called on it they run from it.

    Debt Ceiling Bluff Called By Harry Reid, Leaving Mitch McConnell To Filibuster Himself

    The hypocracy of the right shines right through! laughable
    I don't care if Mitch McConnell filibustered himself.

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    Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    That will be temporary and paying a little more wont kill any of us...think of all the people that are out of work so some poor chinese can work for alot less.
    No. The 2 percent reduction was temporary. This justs sets it back to the percentage it was before.
    "When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So we passed a bill with "Revenue increases" and "Spending increases" (Unemployment, Doc Fix, etc).

    Can someone tell me again why I get flack when I say:

    1) When many liberals say "compromise" they mean "Give us what we want, but just a little less of it"

    2) When I say that the talk of responsable government spending and cuts to our massively, irresponsbile, bloated government budget is utter hogwash that will not actually come to pass in anything other than a smoke an mirrors (10 years down the line, "cutting" things that would end regardless, etc)
    Utter hogwash to borrow your term. The republicants (see what I did there) sat hard and fast with no give on their end. When Speaker of the House Boehner put a bill up his own party shot it down. So down to the wire we went until the Republicants had no other choice but take what was agreed, the tax cuts for the middle class and the end of the 2% payroll 'holiday'.

    Now if the Party of No could sit down and honestly bargain about ALL that ends to be addressed, such as the DoD bloated budget I reckon we could get something done.

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    Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Military spending, except for veterans services and retirement pay, is 14% of federal spending, while the deficit is 38% (at least), so cutting that alone is, just like taxing "the rich" a bit more, simply a scam to make some morons see something as evil and wrong, yet allow the borrow and spend machine to remain largely intact. The defense pork will surely continue yet, as with "welfare" and crony capitalism, will simply be spread among other departments, agencies and programs to make it seem like cuts were made while nothing actually changes. Wait and see what happens in two months, as we follow that borrow and speniding can further down the road. When the PPACA borrow and spend machine more fully awakens in 2014, watch that national deficit/debt soar, even more, out of control. Also note that Obama sees inflation and COLA adjustments to SS/Medicare as "the fix", while still claiming to be for the "little guy" or middle class - yet Obama will never cut "income based" entitlements for the great loafing class, that not only pay little (or no) federal taxes but "need" gov't cash simply to survive.
    I'd LOVE to see where you get the 14%. And just why are we excepting the veteran services and retirement...that is part and parcel of the cost to defend the nation.

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    Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

    Quote Originally Posted by PerfectStorm View Post
    No. The 2 percent reduction was temporary. This justs sets it back to the percentage it was before.
    yes but its not PERMANENT this was a temporary cliff fix...this is not the end result which will come in the next couple of months...I submit that the payroll tax for all under 400,000 and possibly 250,000 will not go up

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    Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    As I see it the teaparty which represents the far right on the GOP has got to tone down its rhetoric and its stonewalling. They need to shorten their list of who they want to take from to fund more tax cuts for the rich. The teaparty went waaaaaaaay to far because they were overly cocky they were going to win the entire enchilada.
    Why do those of us who are actually Fiscal Conservatives need to tone down our rhetoric? Maybe because it just may be starting to get through to some people, or is it because it causes what little common sense some of you may actually still have to get a little bent out of shape?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    They went after the poor, they went after the senior citizens, they went after Middle class, they went after govt workers and in the same breath were screaming and stamping their feet for more tax cuts for the top richest...they had to be high to think they were going to breeze through that even with the billion in rich man money they had to win the election.
    Why should the Top be paying MORE when the Bottom continues to do nothing but TAKE, TAKE, TAKE without ever putting anything back into the system? Personally, I don't want to see a single penny of additional revenue raised until the SPENDING is returned to its Constitutional limitations. Until THAT occurs, nobody should be willingly providing ANY additional income to the Federal Government.

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    Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Several thoughts on the adoption of the legislation:

    1. A minimalist course of accommodation was undertaken. Most expiring tax provisions were renewed.

    2. The AMT was "fixed" permanently without consideration of the level at which indexation would make most sense from a fiscal standpoint. A fix at some level was reasonable, but the fix at the current level means that tax revenue would be about 3.3% of GDP less than would otherwise be the case based on the CBO's 2012 Long-Term Budget Outlook (over the 2012-37 period).

    3. American policy makers again punted on addressing the need for spending-related savings, particularly from mandatory spending programs (where reforms to make them fiscally sustainable remain unaddressed). These programs are the structural drivers of the nation's long-term fiscal imbalances.

    In short, policy makers agreed to a solution that will increase the nation's debt by an estimated $3.9 trillion over the next 10 years (CBO Score: http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fil...lief%20Act.pdf). Policy makers demonstrated an ability, albeit with difficulty, to cushion taxpayers. But when it came to the structural issues behind the nation's fiscal imbalances, they demonstrated no appetite or ability to even make a downpayment in terms of reform. In short, even as the package will contribute to stronger short-term economic growth, it will also add to the nation's credit risk associated with its long-term finances.

    Having said this, this deal is the best that American policy makers could achieve. It falls far short of what is needed. It is another demonstration that the concerns raised by S&P are on the mark. The American political system and/or American policy makers do not appear to be of the caliber required to address the nation's biggest challenges. In that context, especially if no deficit reduction packages are enacted in coming months, it would not surprise me if the U.S. credit rating were downgraded this year. It would also be difficult to argue against such a move.

    In the wake of this deal, financial markets have rallied overseas and futures have soared in the U.S. That outcome reflects what is an Achilles Heel of sorts when it comes to markets, namely that they are an imperfect discounting mechanism on account of a pronounced bias toward the short-term (this issue really reflects the reality that humans lack prescience, hence human institutions similarly lack prescience). One saw such bias in play when the Dow peaked at just over 14,000 in October 2007, even as the housing bubble had burst during the preceding summer and the first losses were rippling through the banking system. What this means is that markets likely won't reflect the added credit risk associated with this package until interest rates have begun to rise. The timing of that outcome is uncertain, but the risk will likely increase over the medium term in the absence of a credible fiscal consolidation strategy coupled with the rise of increasingly attractive investment alternatives overseas on account of overseas economic development.

    My first guess is that even as the sequester is scheduled to kick in within two months, another agreement will likely be reached on that matter to avert or postpone at least a share of those scheduled savings. The 10-year deficit reduction in that agreement probably won't greatly exceed the $3.9 trillion increase in 10-year debt tied to the fiscal cliff legislation and one cannot rule out its falling short of that figure. In short, the net fiscal changes will likely prove modest at best and they will very likely fall well short of credible fiscal consolidation.
    I'll add my 2c for what it's worth. The reason that Obama didn't add any “spending-related savings“ to the fiscal cliff negotiations (other than he didn't have to) was he wanted to keep his powder dry for the negotiations that follows.The debt limit hostage taking.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    I'd LOVE to see where you get the 14%. And just why are we excepting the veteran services and retirement...that is part and parcel of the cost to defend the nation.
    In 2011 defense spending was $878.5 Billion out of total federal spending of 3.6 Trillion or 24% of the federal budget but you also need to consider state spending which was another $2.4 Trillion thus making defense spending 14% of total government spending.

    Everybody gets all excited about federal taxes but we also pay state and local taxes which inevitably get lost in the equation.....as with state and local spending.

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    Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Whipsnade View Post
    I'll add my 2c for what it's worth. The reason that Obama didn't add any “spending-related savings“ to the fiscal cliff negotiations (other than he didn't have to) was he wanted to keep his powder dry for the negotiations that follows.The debt limit hostage taking.
    Or it could be that he didn't want to cut anything to begin with.

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    Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

    Quote Originally Posted by keymanjim View Post
    Reasonable is not in obama';s vocabulary.

    Did you know that one of the things that boy wanted to avoid the fiscal cliff was unilateral control over the debt ceiling?
    Can you imagine if every family sat down every month and decided whether to pay their bills or not like Republicans want to do with America's bills?
    It would go like this...."Gee mom all the kids at school say we are dead beats" Why did we spend all that money if we didn't want to pay the bill when it came?
    The Dad being a Republican says "It doesn't matter that we spent it, if we don't pay the bill we are still being "responsible". It's just too much money to lay out.
    The son reaches for his Dad's AR-15 sitting on the table..........................

    Oh and don't call the President, "boy". It makes you sound like a racist teaparty a-hole. Your not that are you?
    Last edited by iguanaman; 01-02-13 at 12:09 PM.

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