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Thread: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes[W: 110]

  1. #51
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    Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I see the partisan hackery posts return with you.

    New tax revenues make spending cuts irrelevant-maybe the most economically ignorant comment I have seen in years-may I use that line as a signature? the tax hikes fund the government for what-A WEEK?
    The estimated 600b in ten years of revenue is equal to about half the yearly deficit. So, by 2023, it will (if it raises the projected revenue) cover the deficit up to July 2013!
    One who makes himself a worm cannot complain when tread upon.

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    Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

    So we passed a bill with "Revenue increases" and "Spending increases" (Unemployment, Doc Fix, etc).

    Can someone tell me again why I get flack when I say:

    1) When many liberals say "compromise" they mean "Give us what we want, but just a little less of it"

    2) When I say that the talk of responsable government spending and cuts to our massively, irresponsbile, bloated government budget is utter hogwash that will not actually come to pass in anything other than a smoke an mirrors (10 years down the line, "cutting" things that would end regardless, etc)

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    Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

    Several thoughts on the adoption of the legislation:

    1. A minimalist course of accommodation was undertaken. Most expiring tax provisions were renewed.

    2. The AMT was "fixed" permanently without consideration of the level at which indexation would make most sense from a fiscal standpoint. A fix at some level was reasonable, but the fix at the current level means that tax revenue would be about 3.3% of GDP less than would otherwise be the case based on the CBO's 2012 Long-Term Budget Outlook (over the 2012-37 period).

    3. American policy makers again punted on addressing the need for spending-related savings, particularly from mandatory spending programs (where reforms to make them fiscally sustainable remain unaddressed). These programs are the structural drivers of the nation's long-term fiscal imbalances.

    In short, policy makers agreed to a solution that will increase the nation's debt by an estimated $3.9 trillion over the next 10 years (CBO Score: http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fil...lief%20Act.pdf). Policy makers demonstrated an ability, albeit with difficulty, to cushion taxpayers. But when it came to the structural issues behind the nation's fiscal imbalances, they demonstrated no appetite or ability to even make a downpayment in terms of reform. In short, even as the package will contribute to stronger short-term economic growth, it will also add to the nation's credit risk associated with its long-term finances.

    Having said this, this deal is the best that American policy makers could achieve. It falls far short of what is needed. It is another demonstration that the concerns raised by S&P are on the mark. The American political system and/or American policy makers do not appear to be of the caliber required to address the nation's biggest challenges. In that context, especially if no deficit reduction packages are enacted in coming months, it would not surprise me if the U.S. credit rating were downgraded this year. It would also be difficult to argue against such a move.

    In the wake of this deal, financial markets have rallied overseas and futures have soared in the U.S. That outcome reflects what is an Achilles Heel of sorts when it comes to markets, namely that they are an imperfect discounting mechanism on account of a pronounced bias toward the short-term (this issue really reflects the reality that humans lack prescience, hence human institutions similarly lack prescience). One saw such bias in play when the Dow peaked at just over 14,000 in October 2007, even as the housing bubble had burst during the preceding summer and the first losses were rippling through the banking system. What this means is that markets likely won't reflect the added credit risk associated with this package until interest rates have begun to rise. The timing of that outcome is uncertain, but the risk will likely increase over the medium term in the absence of a credible fiscal consolidation strategy coupled with the rise of increasingly attractive investment alternatives overseas on account of overseas economic development.

    My first guess is that even as the sequester is scheduled to kick in within two months, another agreement will likely be reached on that matter to avert or postpone at least a share of those scheduled savings. The 10-year deficit reduction in that agreement probably won't greatly exceed the $3.9 trillion increase in 10-year debt tied to the fiscal cliff legislation and one cannot rule out its falling short of that figure. In short, the net fiscal changes will likely prove modest at best and they will very likely fall well short of credible fiscal consolidation.

  4. #54
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    Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    The estimated 600b in ten years of revenue is equal to about half the yearly deficit. So, by 2023, it will (if it raises the projected revenue) cover the deficit up to July 2013!
    its moronic and the welfare socialists never understand that when everyone but say one percent don't have to pay any more, they all believe that they have no duty to demand less spending

    it will encourage the indolent to demand more and more government since they don't get a bigger bill

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    Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

    Quote Originally Posted by TaraAnne View Post
    That Mitch McConnell proposed and then filibustered. Kinda like tje mandate great idea for the Republicans to come up with! However when a Dem supports it, it becomes a very bad thing. Can you please tell my why it was a Republican idea?
    Another liberal that doesn't understand what a think tank is. Sad really.

  6. #56
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    Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

    I was looking to see if the tax cuts were permanent for 98% of us...and look what I found.

    I see that some are trying to call it the Obama Tax Cuts now. WOW!

    RIP: The Bush Tax Cuts; They Have Become The Obama Tax Cuts - Business Insider
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

  7. #57
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    Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
    You seem to have forgoten the payroll tax. As a middle class man I can expect a reduction in take home pay.
    That will be temporary and paying a little more wont kill any of us...think of all the people that are out of work so some poor chinese can work for alot less.

  8. #58
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    Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

    The teaparty far rights existence will be tried in the next few months. I see alot of conservatives and liberals on here make statements that are not based on any facts or the reality of whats actually occurring. You need to read more guys.
    The teaparty is not dead they are raging a battle within their own party that they "APPEAR" to be losing. There are far more professional conservatives and national conservative and media figures aligning against them more to the traditonal side. There is a hue and cry to tone down ultra right talk radio and the conservative entertainment news industry...we know who they are Rush and Fox etc.
    As I see it the teaparty which represents the far right on the GOP has got to tone down its rhetoric and its stonewalling. They need to shorten their list of who they want to take from to fund more tax cuts for the rich. The teaparty went waaaaaaaay to far because they were overly cocky they were going to win the entire enchilada.
    They went after the poor, they went after the senior citizens, they went after Middle class, they went after govt workers and in the same breath were screaming and stamping their feet for more tax cuts for the top richest...they had to be high to think they were going to breeze through that even with the billion in rich man money they had to win the election.
    The teaparty wont go away it actually has always existed in a different name the Conservative Caucus...they just got megabuck funding this time around and alot of attention. The teaparty wont go away but its influence has peaked with the loss of this election.

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    Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Another liberal that doesn't understand what a think tank is. Sad really.
    So you will not answer the question. I find it funny that the right calls for this stuff and yet tries to make it out to be Obama taking over America but when called on it they run from it.

    Debt Ceiling Bluff Called By Harry Reid, Leaving Mitch McConnell To Filibuster Himself

    The hypocracy of the right shines right through! laughable

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    Re: Fiscal Cliff Bill Passes

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Was a 'winning' formula when St. Reagan and Bush the younger both used it, why is it so out of favor now? Certainly not the 'principle' of the thing?

    Step by step, those who think there will be no more fights on spending cuts are mistaken. What will be interesting to see if the spending we do that equals the next 14 top spending nations gets any significant cuts...
    Military spending, except for veterans services and retirement pay, is 14% of federal spending, while the deficit is 38% (at least), so cutting that alone is, just like taxing "the rich" a bit more, simply a scam to make some morons see something as evil and wrong, yet allow the borrow and spend machine to remain largely intact. The defense pork will surely continue yet, as with "welfare" and crony capitalism, will simply be spread among other departments, agencies and programs to make it seem like cuts were made while nothing actually changes. Wait and see what happens in two months, as we follow that borrow and speniding can further down the road. When the PPACA borrow and spend machine more fully awakens in 2014, watch that national deficit/debt soar, even more, out of control. Also note that Obama sees inflation and COLA adjustments to SS/Medicare as "the fix", while still claiming to be for the "little guy" or middle class - yet Obama will never cut "income based" entitlements for the great loafing class, that not only pay little (or no) federal taxes but "need" gov't cash simply to survive.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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