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Portugal's Jan-Nov tax revenues fall 5.8 pct

LowDown

LowDown

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Portugal's Jan-Nov tax revenues fall 5.8 pct | Reuters

Tax revenues have fallen despite a range of tax hikes this year due to the country's deep recession, prompting an easing of Lisbon's deficit targets for this year and next by the lenders from the European Union and the IMF.
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So they raised taxes only to see tax revenues fall? The Laffer Curve lives!

You suppose Obama might learn something from ... naw, no way.
 
It's almost uncanny how conservatives seem compelled to compare the US, which the largest economy in the world, now growing at 3%, with some of the smallest economies in the world, hoping no doubt that nobody notices how silly the comparison is.

By the way, Portugal followed the austerity route promoted by the Tea Party Occupied Congress. How'd that work out for Portugal (or the UK, or Greece, or Germany)?

Now, which western economy followed the stimulus route and now has 3% growth? Come on, I know you can say it!
 
LowDown said:
Portugal's Jan-Nov tax revenues fall 5.8 pct | Reuters



So they raised taxes only to see tax revenues fall? The Laffer Curve lives!

You suppose Obama might learn something from ... naw, no way.
Click to expand...

Considering that the tax hikes were mandatory from the IMF and that the recession is caused in large part because of massive cuts in the public sector, and being a recession it means that tax income usually goes down... then well it aint a shocker.

You American conservative types are funny when it comes to facts and figures... ignoring most of them to get a political notch.

As for the laffer curve... nothing is proven or dis-proven with this information.
 
poweRob said:
Interesting how you somehow are very positive that the decline in revenue is because of the tax hikes... not the huge recession mentioned.
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No doubt higher taxes didn't help the economy either.
 
head of joaquin said:
It's almost uncanny how conservatives seem compelled to compare the US, which the largest economy in the world, now growing at 3%, with some of the smallest economies in the world, hoping no doubt that nobody notices how silly the comparison is.

By the way, Portugal followed the austerity route promoted by the Tea Party Occupied Congress. How'd that work out for Portugal (or the UK, or Greece, or Germany)?

Now, which western economy followed the stimulus route and now has 3% growth? Come on, I know you can say it!
Click to expand...

Dump a lot of borrowed money in the economy you're bound to get some growth for a while. Then comes the time to pay up.

In the US we have very high deficit spending and hardly any growth even after almost a trillion in "stimulus". Why? Poor governance, excessive regulations, threats of higher taxes, scapegoating and demonizing the business community. All the money goes into the pockets of fatcat public sector unions who keep the looters in office. They are in the process of busting out the United States.
 
LowDown said:
No doubt higher taxes didn't help the economy either.
Click to expand...

Yes, we know you didn't have any doubts. That was the point. Despite no actual evidence that the tax increase caused a decrease in revenue, you just assume these things.

While the concept of the Laffer Curve may be vaguely resembling something in the vicinity of reality, it's a useless model. Tax revenue is a very complicated situation. There's no way to tell where you might be on that curve, and there's really no reason that multiple peaks cannot exist.
 
Deuce said:
Yes, we know you didn't have any doubts. That was the point. Despite no actual evidence that the tax increase caused a decrease in revenue, you just assume these things.

While the concept of the Laffer Curve may be vaguely resembling something in the vicinity of reality, it's a useless model. Tax revenue is a very complicated situation. There's no way to tell where you might be on that curve, and there's really no reason that multiple peaks cannot exist.
Click to expand...

I can see that you're anxious to reject a theory without having adequate data to do so. Meanwhile, I merely point out one example that supports the theory.
 
LowDown said:
I can see that you're anxious to reject a theory without having adequate data to do so. Meanwhile, I merely point out one example that supports the theory.
Click to expand...

You know absolutely nothing about the economic situation in Portugal. You don't have any data. You have one variable in an incredibly complex system.
 
poweRob said:
Interesting how you somehow are very
positive that the decline in revenue is because of the tax hikes... not the huge recession mentioned.
Click to expand...

Seriously dude ?....unbelievable.

They RAISED taxes in a recession and its cost them revenue.
 
Fenton said:
Seriously dude ?....unbelievable.

They RAISED taxes in a recession and its cost them revenue.
Click to expand...

The data given is insufficient to make that determination. One thing happened, then another thing happened, but this is not proof the first thing caused the second thing.

An economy is very complex. To make such a declaration of fact with so little information is absurd.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc. "After this, therefore because of this." It's a fallacy for a reason.
 
Deuce said:
The data given is insufficient to make that determination. One thing happened, then another thing happened, but this is not proof the first thing caused the second thing.

An economy is very complex. To make such a declaration of fact with so little information is absurd.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc. "After this, therefore because of this." It's a fallacy for a reason.
Click to expand...

I don't know... Portugal RAISED TAXES and Super Storm Sand hit our East coast. It happened at the same time! It's irrefutable.
 
Fenton said:
Seriously dude ?....unbelievable.

They RAISED taxes in a recession and its cost them revenue.
Click to expand...

They cut public spending much more... that cost them revenue via taxes of the people who lost their jobs because of cut backs in the public sector.
 
If one is relying on empirical data, it is too soon to make such a call.

First, the tax increases were adopted in October: UPDATE 5-Portugal launches tax hikes, enters bond market | Reuters
Second, prior to those tax increases, revenue had missed targets: Portuguese Economy Contracts for Eighth Straight Quarter - Bloomberg.

The second point illustrates the impact that a prolonged recession has been having. Austerity (tax and spending side) creates an economic drag. Therefore, the recession could initally be amplified and extended by the austerity measures. That development would have a second-order effect on tax revenue.

The critical question afterward will be whether Portugal will emerge from the recession with stronger finances e.g., will Portugal stablize and then reduce its debt relative to GDP in the medium-term. That, ultimately, will be the measure by which Portugal's austerity program is judged.
 
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