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Thread: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

  1. #61
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    No doubt you find it difficult to live in a world in which it is assumed that a person can't even trust his or her own family.
    Have you met my family?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by 0bserver92 View Post
    Don't they lie and put a spin on everything?
    They make Faux look like the amateurs they are.
    Don't work out, work in.

    Never eat anything that's served in a bucket.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Having information is an abuse how? Exactly?
    What are you talking about?

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Well, I agree in theory, but in practice, I can't.
    We, as a country, have decided that we want our elderly to be insured by a gov UHC program.

    Our ability to continue to pay for it, is at great risk.
    One of the largest costs is end of life care.
    Where do you think they're going to cut services at?

    I don't like it anymore than you, but that's the reality and it's ugly.
    If you didn't like it as much as I do, you would realize how preposterous it is. Of all the stupid **** we spend money on, you would have us start offing old people to save money? What the hell kind of society would we be running here?
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I fail to see the difference between being rewarded for putting people on the pathway and a bounty. Both are rewards for taking a certain course of action. The term "reward" tends to rule out the idea that they are simply being paid for care. And yes, I find this claim credible. Pejorative? I would hope so!

    We would hope that this is just the result of poor record keeping. We would hope that consent was obtained and patients were treated appropriately but that care givers didn't document it properly. I would think, however, that at the very least a formal written consent would be required before any patient was put on the pathway to death. The most chilling aspect of this story is the bit about some patients being conscious and able to consent when they were put on the pathway involuntarily. It implies that they weren't really even that sick!

    The main point is that people are being "put on the pathway" involuntarily, which is bad enough bounty or no. Also the fact that as soon as this pathway was put into effect by the government it was being abused wholesale.

    Lest we think that this would never happen in the US, let me tell you that in Texas it is already possible and legal for doctors to pull the plug on patients without the consent of the patient or the family. And the main reason for it is cost, and not in a cash strapped government hospital but in private hospitals flush with cash who want to be even more flush. The process for doing this is long, tedious and drawn out, so it is not being used very much. But there it is.
    "Bounty" and "reward" are both pejorative words used by the newspaper, not the system. Jesus. When people are put on hospice care, Medicare pays for it. Is that a bounty?? Is it a bounty when a surgeon performs heart surgery?

    Society cannot afford to keep terminal patients alive for as long as their little bodies are willing to fight the fight. There it is. The cold, hard truth.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Have you met my family?
    For people who can't trust their family guardians can be assigned. But the presumption is that a person can trust his family.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    What are you talking about?
    You spoke about here. Here information is what we have always been talking about.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #68
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    If you didn't like it as much as I do, you would realize how preposterous it is. Of all the stupid **** we spend money on, you would have us start offing old people to save money? What the hell kind of society would we be running here?
    Not "old people", but "old people who are so sick, there is no purpose for continuing their life."

    Medicare is going to be the largest budget item we have and we won't have enough to pay for it, plus everything else.
    That's one of those reality things again.

    You can't have all the medical care you want, especially for elderly people, the money just isn't there, without punitive taxation on everyone else.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    For people who can't trust their family guardians can be assigned. But the presumption is that a person can trust his family.
    I would presume anything. You know what they say about assumptions.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    "Bounty" and "reward" are both pejorative words used by the newspaper, not the system. Jesus. When people are put on hospice care, Medicare pays for it. Is that a bounty?? Is it a bounty when a surgeon performs heart surgery?

    Society cannot afford to keep terminal patients alive for as long as their little bodies are willing to fight the fight. There it is. The cold, hard truth.
    So you're OK with people being killed without their consent? I have no problem with hospice care or this pathway thing if done right. I have a serious problem with violating a person's autonomy. It's the difference between a good death and murder.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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