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Thread: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

  1. #51
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    The individual has no right to demand that others pick up the cost of their care indefinitely.
    Why not..I am sure when this guy was fit and healthy..he paid taxes for people who didn't work...

    Lets face it..society had finished with him..Next..

    It's like the blade runner..

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    But as a people, we can plan for how to bet deal with such eventualities effectively and efficiently.
    Yes, they're called living wills, advanced directives and healthcare powers of attorney. Until we are willing to accept death as inevitable and realize we have the RIGHT to a peaceful journey to that end? We will continue gnashing our teeth, keeping people alive who are in intractable pain, and treating our loved ones worse than we treat our beloved dogs.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    My husband died of lung cancer after a year-long battle. He had a tumor in his lungs the size of an orange. They removed one lobe. The surgery was excruciatingly painful. Horrible for him. The first day after surgery, they took him off most pain medication; he couldn't even talk he was in so much pain. He took radiation every day for six weeks -- we had to drive 150 miles every day for the treatments. The drive was extremely painful for him every single day.
    I'm so sorry to hear this Maggie, but if I were your husband, I hope I would take the same approach that he did. There comes a point when we realize that we are not immortal, and there are some things that are not worth the fight, because the fight can be worse than the price of acceptance. Kudos to you for being so supportive, and to your husband for the battle he fought and chose. I would like to have known him- he sounds like an admirable man.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Yes, they're called living wills, advanced directives and healthcare powers of attorney. Until we are willing to accept death as inevitable and realize we have the RIGHT to a peaceful journey to that end? We will continue gnashing our teeth, keeping people alive who are in intractable pain, and treating our loved ones worse than we treat our beloved dogs.
    And informing people of these options is proper, and not a death panel.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    The individual has no right to demand that others pick up the cost of their care indefinitely.
    Why not...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFZjY2pmEyw

    Easy to abuse elderly patients..

    Usually by people working for basic wages...7 days a week..

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    This is not a bounty, for God's sake. First of all, your quote says, "It's thought..." Wow, that's hard news reporting if I ever heard it. Secondly, these people still have to get paid for what they're doing -- even if it's just occupying a bed. Paid for hospice care. Imagine that.
    I fail to see the difference between being rewarded for putting people on the pathway and a bounty. Both are rewards for taking a certain course of action. The term "reward" tends to rule out the idea that they are simply being paid for care. And yes, I find this claim credible. Pejorative? I would hope so!

    We would hope that this is just the result of poor record keeping. We would hope that consent was obtained and patients were treated appropriately but that care givers didn't document it properly. I would think, however, that at the very least a formal written consent would be required before any patient was put on the pathway to death. The most chilling aspect of this story is the bit about some patients being conscious and able to consent when they were put on the pathway involuntarily. It implies that they weren't really even that sick!

    The main point is that people are being "put on the pathway" involuntarily, which is bad enough bounty or no. Also the fact that as soon as this pathway was put into effect by the government it was being abused wholesale.

    Lest we think that this would never happen in the US, let me tell you that in Texas it is already possible and legal for doctors to pull the plug on patients without the consent of the patient or the family. And the main reason for it is cost, and not in a cash strapped government hospital but in private hospitals flush with cash who want to be even more flush. The process for doing this is long, tedious and drawn out, so it is not being used very much. But there it is.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfie View Post
    Why not...
    Because you don't have a right to other people's money, for infinity.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfie View Post
    Why not..I am sure when this guy was fit and healthy..he paid taxes for people who didn't work...

    Lets face it..society had finished with him..Next..

    It's like the blade runner..
    If he wants to pay for his own health care, he has the right to make demands, depending on the terms of the insurance policy he buys. When the taxpayer is footing the bill, he doesn't.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I fail to see the difference between being rewarded for putting people on the pathway and a bounty. Both are rewards for taking a certain course of action. The term "reward" tends to rule out the idea that they are simply being paid for care. And yes, I find this claim credible. Pejorative? I would hope so!

    We would hope that this is just the result of poor record keeping. We would hope that consent was obtained and patients were treated appropriately but that care givers didn't document it properly. I would think, however, that at the very least a formal written consent would be required before any patient was put on the pathway to death. The most chilling aspect of this story is the bit about some patients being conscious and able to consent when they were put on the pathway involuntarily. It implies that they weren't really even that sick!

    The main point is that people are being "put on the pathway" involuntarily, which is bad enough bounty or no. Also the fact that as soon as this pathway was put into effect by the government it was being abused wholesale.

    Lest we think that this would never happen in the US, let me tell you that in Texas it is already possible and legal for doctors to pull the plug on patients without the consent of the patient or the family. And the main reason for it is cost, and not in a cash strapped government hospital but in private hospitals flush with cash who want to be even more flush. The process for doing this is long, tedious and drawn out, so it is not being used very much. But there it is.
    Having information is an abuse how? Exactly?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfie View Post
    And are these patients capable of making this choice..or is it down to the nearest relatives...Mmmm..property..
    No doubt you find it difficult to live in a world in which it is assumed that a person can't even trust his or her own family.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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